In many churches, the pastor’s salary is a quiet issue. There is a sense of discomfort from both the pastor and the members when the topic is broached. Such discomfort is unfortunate, however, because a number of churches will not seek every year to make certain the pastor is paid fairly.
A couple of prefatory comments are in order. First, we all know of the extreme examples of pastors living lavishly or mismanaging money. Those stories, though true, represent a small minority. Most pastors are not overpaid. And most pastors manage their limited finances well. Second, I am aware that many people are unemployed and that anyone who has a job should be grateful. That is still not a good reason to pay a pastor unfairly. As a final note, this brief article is relevant to all paid church staff, though my focus is here on the pastor.
In my 25 years of consulting and working with churches, I have discovered five common issues that are not always known by most church members. And lack of awareness of any one of these issues can have a detrimental impact on fair compensation for the pastor.
- A pay or compensation package is not the same as a salary. I cringe when I hear churches state a package to be the pay for the pastor. The package includes benefits such as health insurance and expense reimbursements such as business use of the automobile. No worker in a secular company adds their benefits and expenses and calls it their pay. Anything other than the cash payment (before taxes) the pastor receives should be reported in a totally separate category.
- There are many resources to find out what the fair compensation for a pastor should be. Many denominations provide their own compensation studies. But you can do an Internet search for “pastor pay” and see a plethora of resources that are available. And as a rule of thumb, you could seek to estimate what the mean income is for families in the church, and use that as a basis for compensation for the pastor. Churches that do not do their homework on pastoral compensation tend to underpay their pastors.
- Many pastors request no raises but would still appreciate one. Some pastors simply don’t want to deal with a critic who might question any raise given to a pastor. Others feel extremely uncomfortable talking about money in general, and use the “no raise” request to deflect further conversation. Some think it’s just the noble thing to do. But most pastors, in reality, would appreciate a fair raise to keep up with growing expenses. Don’t accept their requests as the last word.
- Many pastors are under extreme stress because they do not have adequate income to meet their financial obligations. Like anyone else who is under heavy financial burdens, a pastor can find his thoughts consumed with worry. Because he is so distracted, he naturally is less effective in his ministry. Both he and his family feel the pressure.
- Some pastors leave their churches because of pay issues. You will not likely hear a pastor announce in his resignation that he is leaving because of financial pressures. The reality is that, for a number of pastors, the issue of compensation is a major push from one church to another, or from the church to a secular vocation. It’s not that the pastor is in his job for the money; it’s that the compensation for his vocation is insufficient to meet his family’s needs.
Paul wrote these words to his young protégé, Timothy, in 1 Timothy 5:17-18: “The elders who are good leaders should be considered worthy of an ample honorarium, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, ‘Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain and, the worker is worthy of his wages’” (HCSB).
It is unfortunate that the few indulgent pastors who live lavish lifestyles get most of the attention. The reality is that most of the some 400,000 pastors in America are not overpaid; indeed many are underpaid. Those are the pastors who need our attention.
Dr. Rainer, that is a timely blog, I fit right where you are taking about…… We struggle each month.
Thank you Lonnie. You are in my prayers.
Dr,
i am part time pastor in small village church, my church believers are unable to paid salary but they are willingly paying me through collection of every month of 2nd sunday offering.
Dr. RAnier,
I have a question. Is it proper for mileage reimbursement to be lumped together with basic compensation in one check or should a separate check detailing miles being reimbursed be written.
Robbin -
Auto expenses are a direct expense reimbursement and should never be confused with basic compensation. I would advise against including the amounts in the same check.
Robbin,
Absolutely, mileage should be a seperate check. Please, tell me it is handled as a reimbursement (no taxes paid), not an addition to base pay.
God say he will supply your every need according to his riches in Glory, he also say in the word that he never seen the righteous forsaken nor his SEED begging bread.
Etta,
This is entirely true, as you mention Phil. 4:19 and Psalm 37:25-26, that God does provide for the needs of his people, and that in all of David’s years as King of Israel, he never saw anyone in need of begging. However, this doesn’t negate the responsibility for God’s people to give faithfully, so that others (including pastoral staff) can receive a fair wage. Most pastors don’t get paid enough, and especially for being on-call 24-7. My feeling is that we can’t just keep quoting verses about God providing and forgetting that we are the body of Christ, through which Christ does his work.
Right, Steve. We (congregants) are to be the means by which God provides for our pastors. We should see it as our privilege to do so.
In addition we need to us All Scripture for our doctrine on paying the Pastor. This subject is clearly discussed by Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:7-14 and Galatians 6:6
Etta, Can you then explain for me the countless Christians who live in poverty. Are they not righteous, are only the wealthy righteous, and if so why did Jesus come as an impoverished peasant instead of a wealthy land owner?
Unfortunately, that’s why I am not actively pursuing a pastoral position right now. I am made to feel guilty for expecting a certain salary…I am told I need to exercise faith. Yet no other profession is told that. It is sad really.
Dennis, that argument can blow both ways … ask the congregation why they aren’t exercising faith that they can compensate a pastor fairly.
Dennis,
No other profession is paid by a church either.
My point is churches SHOULD approach salaries different than business. Pastors should approach salaries different than CEOs as well.
If a pastor would not be willing to serve as pastor for free they should not be pastors, assuming their families were taken care of some other way. Our desire, like Pauls, should be to be able to work for free, despite having the right to be paid. 1 Cor. 9.
In I Corinthians 9, Paul is referring to a particular situation, though he makes universal application, though the application is not that pastors should work for free. I Cor. 9:14 makes this clear. Paul’s desire was not to be a burden to the Corinthian church for certain reasons. He did not make this request of all the churches he worked for. In fact, he did not ultimately work at the Corinthian church for free, as in II Corinthians 11:8, he said “I robbed other churches by accepting support from them in order to serve you.” I don’t know if Paul solicited this help or if it was offered to him, but in any case he took it. Other chuches made up for the absence of support from the Corinthians. A pastor should be willing to work for free in special situations, but if a pastor has a family, then the pastor has a Biblical responsibility to support that family too that has to be weighed. .
He should support his family for certain. What is far less certain is that able bodied men should depend on the local church to pay them a permanent salary and benefits. We so often hear Paul quoted in 1 Cor 9 but it is pretty obvious that his focus was on not getting paid because that was an obstacle to the Gospel. Also worth noting, Paul was not a full time clerical employee for a particular local church but a itinerant preacher/missionary. We have taken a completely different situation and applied it to professional clergy when there is little to support that claim.
John,
Just to be clear. I didnt say Paul was telling us to work for free in 1 Corinthians 9. What I am arguing is that if our hearts arent even in a place that we would pastor without pay we should not be pastors.
My point is- as all things- this is an issue of the heart.
Im definitely not stating pastors have an obligation to reject money from the church they serve while their family suffers.
Dear Matt
What is it like living in the kingdom of neverneverland with Peter Pan. The fairies, the munchkins, etc! That was a very condescending post. If you are indeed a pastor and pastor freely not knowing where your next meal will be or where you will rest, I pity you. If you have a family I pity them even more.
Desi,
I sure think it would be fun to get to live there… even if it was just for a weekend.
You missed my point. I am a pastor, I receive a salary. While I could understand someone feeling pity for my family, that would probably have more to do with my personality than how I deal with finances.
My point was that this is an issue of the heart. Im not sure how people missed that when I said, “Our desire, like Pauls, should be to be able to work for free despite having the right to be paid.” People, including yourself, responded as if I said, “Pastors should never receive money from the church, even if that means their family suffers horribly and is on the brink of death!”
I hope your family has a great Christmas.
Desi,
You completely misunderstood the gentleman’s post. If you are going to disagree with a statement, atleast characterize it properly. I had to read his post carefully a couple of times before I understood what he was saying. Read with a level head and at least ask questions before you come to an oversimplified conclusion about someone’s statement. Speaking of condescending:
“What’s it like to live in neverneverland…etc!!”?? C’mon… I think you’re better than that.
Whoa my friend, the church IS a business. Just ask the IRS. They look at churches as businesses and they look at the Pastors as the leading administrator, i.e., CEO. When interviewing for a pastoring position, the candidate has every right to insist on a livable wage to be reviewed every 90-120 days. If the pastor merits a raise, THEN GIVE IT TO HIM. How stingy we have become with God’s money in compensating God’s leaders in the local church. Shame on us!
Dr. Rainer, My husband is blessed to serve to serve as Associate Pastor in a church that manages its money very well. We have been here three years and each year, they have given him a raise, without us asking for one. The past two years they have also given the Senior Pastor a raise. This year at our annual business meeting, one of our church members was concerned because the pastor was not getting a raise. Discussion ensued and revealed that the pastor had requested that he not get a raise, feeling that he did not need one. I appreciate the article you have written here and I am thankful that our church already follows these guidelines. We should pray that churches will realize just how much their pastors do for them, and compensate them accordingly.
Thank you Rebecca. Blessings to you and your husband.
Dr. Rainer, A powerful blog statement. Thank you for all you do. After 30 years of serving in the pastorate I understand only too well all you are stating. Again, thank you.
Thank you for your kind words Timothy.
Dr. Rainer, thank you for this timely article. I am a staff member at a church that called two new full-time staff members two weeks apart, increasing the total number of FT staff members from 1 to 3 (including the senior pastor). The church knew that this would require a significant increase in giving. Eighteen months later, the giving has increased slightly, but not nearly enough to meet the needs of the additional salary and pay packages, without signficantly reducing the budgets of most of our ministries, including CP giving. The stewardship committee is willing to cut whatever it takes in order to avoid reducing our salaries, but I am struggling with the fact that most of the ministries will lose signficant funds just to pay my salary. I am praying about what I should do about this situation, and your article was personally very helpful to me. Thank you for your ministry!
Thanks Jason. My prayers for you and the church.
It should be noted that while Paul told Timothy that Elders deserved compensation, Paul himself was bi-vocational. There is little reason that Pastors cannot share enough of their responsibility with other Elders in order to work. Indeed in this way Pastors would be even more able to relate to their congregation. As it is, we have made the Pastor the CEO of a body of believers.
I Cor. 9:13-14 says “Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings?” In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.”Were the people in the temple service bi-vocational? I think this indicates that bi-vocationality is not to be a default expectation of pastors. And of course, Paul apparently was also single during his ministry outlined in Acts and the Epistles. If a pastor is married with children, the pastor is already the equivalent of being bi-vocational, at least.
It is possible that those verses are taken out of context. What is the main thrust of Paul’s argument here? Is it about compensation? Listen to the following verses,
“Yet I have never used any of these rights. And I am not writing this to suggest that I want to start now. In fact, I would rather die than lose my right to boast about preaching without charge. 16 Yet preaching the Good News is not something I can boast about. I am compelled by God to do it. How terrible for me if I didn’t preach the Good News! 17 If I were doing this on my own initiative, I would deserve payment. But I have no choice, for God has given me this sacred trust. 18 What then is my pay? It is the opportunity to preach the Good News without charging anyone. That’s why I never demand my rights when I preach the Good News.”
I think more is going on than a simple argument for pastors making their income through the church. I believe that Scripture’s truths should be applied universally, that is, they are true all the time, if they are in fact true. With this in mind, we are speaking about Pastor’s compensation within the context of Western America. Can these verses be reasonably applied to most other culture’s that are different from the American church model?
I don’t think there is a “default” form of income for people in ministry. The examples in the New Testament are way to diverse to pin it down to that.
Author, while much of what your saying is true we cannot deny the kingdom principles that are being used as illustration by paul in this text. No one tend a flock and not during the milk, no one goes to war on his own dime, and who plants a vineyard and doesn’t eat the grapes are biblical principles from old to new testament and are try regardkles f whether Paul was full time , part time or Itinerate. He had every right to part take of the proceeds of the gospel. Paul’s particular assignment in this case he for went his right so that the gospel would not be hindered do to his audience being former pagan worshipers and the rogue visitors who came to question and attack his integrity which is why this letter is written in reponse to accusations . However you and I dont have the same assignment as Paul so those rights we do not have to give up. Jesus was taken care of by those he ministerd to Luke 8:1-3 , 1 tim 5:17 say pay the teachers double honor which 2 times the highest prevailing wage. Jesus told his disciples not take their wallets because their needs should be met by those they ministered too. I know I have ministered and refused payment because the holy spirit prompted me not to take it. Other times where I gladly received. And sometimes where I was flat out robbed. Paul called what he was doing for the church at Corinth robbery. Let not get Pauls speceific assignment confused with Kingdom principles. He gave up a lot of rights including the one to have a believing wife I don’t know about you but I’m not giving that one up either. Lol
Sorry bout typos..cell phone
Dr. Rainer,
I am curious for a little clarification on #2. When you comment about seeking the “mean income is for families in the church, and use that as a basis for compensation for the pastor” what are your thoughts about the pastor’s wife and her income situation? I ask because it has come up in our own business meetings when discussing my husband’s salary. It was asked what income I brought to the family (which at the time was none. I was staying home with 3 elementary aged sons.) I just have never truly understood the thought process behind that question, but it was definitely used as a basis for his salary.
S -
Shame on any church that inquires about the spouse’s income. The church should pay the pastor fairly without delving into personal matters of his family. Your income should have no bearing on his salary.
Thank you, Dr. Rainer, I don’t want to bring shame to them, but being our first post-Seminary position their idea almost had merit. As painful as it was, we decided the best course of action was for me to take a part time job to supplement his income. 2 of our boys are now in middle school and are responsible enough to help out around the house and with their younger brother.
Anyway, thank you again, I just wanted to make sure that my initial reactions weren’t selfishly and arrogantly motivated. I want to respond with care and compassion always.
I have to remain anonymous in this post, mostly to protect the guilty.
After my wife and I had our second child, we decided she would not go back to work. I petitioned the Church Council to find out if the church could, feasibly, pay for my wife’s insurance. They consulted with the Finance Committee, who said it was feasible. Three months later, when we accepted a call to another church, we still had no answer from the Church Council.
Bottom line was this: I’ve never asked for a “raise” in my life, but we knew we couldn’t feed our family if those insurance premiums had to come out of our pocket.
Here’s the really sad part: behind closed doors, it was said, “That girl didn’t have to quit working. That was their choice.” The wife’s income, or lack thereof, should have no bearing whatsoever on what a church pays a pastor. Furthermore, it’s a short step from, “She didn’t have to quit working,” to “They didn’t have to have that second child.”
Dr. Rainer, I agree with you wholeheartedly. “Shame on any church that inquires about the spouse’s income. The church should pay the pastor fairly without delving into personal matters of his family.” Regrettably, many churches do.
Most pastors relate well to your situation. Unfortunately, my own experience has proven that churches get by for as little as they can. 20% of the people pay 80% of the bills…I guess if I was in that 20% I might be reluctant to commit to extra bills because in the end I will be paying the bills. This situation will never change. I urge all pastoral candidates to think this through with their spouse before committing to full time ministry. YOU, not the church, are responsible for taking care of your family. It’s that way if you work for Wal-mart or the church. Don’t make the church the scapegoat any more than you make your secular employer the scapegoat. The ultimate responsibility rests with you. PLAN AHEAD! What solutions are in your control? Remember: part-time pastoring pays better than full-time, especially if you have a decent pay package with your secular employer. The ministry may not be as good…but then again, maybe the church relies too much on you as a full-time minister. I was better able to financially protect my family as a part-time pastor than a full-time pastor. Hope this helps.
There was–as is always the case–much more going on than I was able to or needed to share. I was seriously considering going bi-vo, which is what I would have done if the Lord had not chosen to move us. In the end, it all worked out for the best.
My simple point is that (a) they never should have considered my wife’s income when developing a pay package for me and that (b) the comments regarding our decision for her not to go back to work were hurtful and absolutely, positively uncalled for.
Brother, I totally appreciate your situation. As a youth pastor, things worked out just fine for my wife and I before we had our first child. My wife became a stay at home mom, which is what we feel is best for our family and our goals as parents. I worked full time at the church and also worked part time. The extra work helped, but we were not able to afford medical insurance (which was very difficult since childbearing plays quite a number on a woman), and ultimately we were facing financial ruin if we stayed where we were at. I chose to find a new position because my church was either unwilling or unable (depends on which lay person you ask-but most of them have no real idea why I left) to give me the raise I requested. I have no hard feelings toward the church, I love them all dearly, but it was a painful decision to make and I totally understand the burden you felt. Ministry is not for the weak at heart.
Blessings,
DK
Dear Dan,
Your comment (“but most of them have no real idea why I left”) raises a question in my mind: Would the Church be better off if we spoke more openly about pastoral compensation. Before becoming a pastor I worked in the public and private sectors for 25 years. It was not at all uncommon for people to leave positions to earn more money elsewhere. Yet, we have made this topic something pastors dare not say. So, virtually no pastors ever acknowledge that one of the reasons they are going to another church is that they pay better.
I recognize that this is a difficult subject to deal with, but when most of the congregation has no idea why a pastor is leaving how can we expect them to make appropriate changes?
Best wishes,
David
David,
Yeah, I agree, if I felt that I could have been more open about things I might have avoided having to leave. I went back to that church not too long ago for a youth conference. Some folks were glad to see me. Others are angry with me. They are angry, in part, I believe, because they have no idea what staying there would have meant to my family. They all loved my wife, my son and me, and I would like to believe that they would not have been comfortable with her enduring hardship (which she did) because we could not afford medical insurance. I also think that if they understood that we could not have any more children because we could not afford insurance that they would have understood. They would then not be angry with me, simply said that I had to leave. In that we could be unified.
DK
I did not notice any comment concerning a pastors tax situation. How he is both employed and self employed for social security. It does come with some perks but the full ss tax can be a killer. Most do not know this. Including those preparing ministers taxes.
Very timely article. Thanks, Tom.
Thank yo sir for your article…well stated and well needed! Having been a bi-vocational pastor myself, I know all too well the weight that financial burdens can add to the pastor’s heart and mind as he endeavors to fulfill the call of God on his life. I’m afraid that many of the pastors who deserve the most financial help are the least likely to bring it up, because of the reasons you mentioned above. It is important for us to take care of God’s men while they are here with us, or we may find ourselves searching for a pastor one day who will care as much as the one who left, but will not be able to find one because of our unwillingness to bless the ones we’ve already been blessed by.
To me, the question is not whether the pastor should be willing to work for free. (Personally I think that is hogwash and I find no support for that anywhere). The real question is what SHOULD the church do? How SHOULD they treat the pastor?
SHAME ON a church that has a penurious attitude toward those who spend their careers leading them. They don’t deserve good leaders. The Golden Rule too often seems to have no place in the church, or so it seems to me.
We have created a “church system” that requires trained, even professional, management to oversee and maintain. The sad result of that system is that we expect pastors to serve as CEO’s and we operate church like a business. This responsibility of oversight includes buildings and property, personnel, vendors, accounts payable, and overhead. And we haven’t even started with what the church is really all about: making disciples. For most churches 80-90% of their income through member contributions goes toward maintaining the system (salaries, insurance, utilities, building/property maintenance, etc.). That leaves 10-20% to support actual ministry. We justify that by saying the other 80-90% is ministry support. Whether a church has 50 or 5,000 members, the basic system works exactly the same. Pastors could earn their living doing something else, but if you’re “in the system,” you pretty much have to operate in the above described scenario. It doesn’t have to be that way, though. Jesus did not institute an organization that must be managed, but an organism that must multiply.
If Jesus thought like you He would have never put together a flow chart (the 3, the 12, the 72) and Paul wouldn’t have taught organizational structure to Timothy (Paul, Timothy, reliable men, others also) Any leader knows that anything that is going to continue to multiply must me managed well. Jesus and Paul both lead and managed well. (Jesus even had a treasurer)
I agree with you we serve a God of order, planning and structure. Our God is into extremely detail. I agree that the organism must multiply but that happens through the regimented structure he put in place. Form the tabernacle other 3 groups with in the levites who had specific duties and task when they tried to get out of order they got swallowed by the earth. Number 16:1. Proverb 16:1 amplified says planning an organization is man job!
I,was working two jobs when the economy tanked. Teaching at a Community college and chaplaincy at a jail.
60 hrs a week. Lost both jobs in two months .
God freed me to minister in Ethiopia, twice, then called me to.pastor a church in a rural town in a very poor,part of the state. A city church supported me briefly while we planted the church and then they had a financial crunch of their own. We get nothing from our tiny church. God really does supply all our needs.
I don’t see the though process behind the statement that pastors should work (or even be willing to work) for free. These are men with families that they have to provide for just like anyone else. They should be paid a fair compensation. Most people who are not pastors have no idea what pastors really have to deal with on a daily basis. There is so much more than just preaching on Sundays and teaching on Wednesday nights. And, a spouses salary should not have anything to do with what he gets paid. My husband is a pastor and I work outside the home also. Not completely by choice – I mostly work to supply benefits that my husband is not offered. Without my job, we would have no health, dental or vision insurance. I am not complaining, for we have been very blessed and are very grateful to God for providing for us daily. I just think that most people don’t understand the life of a pastor and his family and how difficult it can be sometimes. If they did, I feel confident that no one would question a pastor’s pay again.
*thought
You are so right…..package is the “killer”word. This is something close to my heart and I speak to it every opportunity the Lord gives.As director of missions I believe it is my responsibility to inform the church leadership of their responsibility to provide for their pastor and staff in a generous way and that the Lord will bless any church that demonstrates their love in a tangible way. The other side of the coin is we who are called should work hard and demonstrate good stewardship……………all for HIS glory.
I am very proud of our church and the way the finance committee handles this issue. The church is not large enough to support a full-time pastor, particularly with benefits. Yet they have offered our family a salary increase every year we have been with them serving bi-vocationally. They recognize our sacrifice as well as the joy with which we serve and the small salary increase just shows us that they appreciate our ministry. I’m sure they could show appreciation in other ways as well but this sure means a lot, especially for our kids. Of course, being bi-vocational it is not as much of a “need” as it was when I was serving full-time. Those guys really need to be shown the love, especially in small churches. They sacrifice much for the kingdom but most don’t even see it as a sacrifice but a joyful service.
How would these points line up with SBC employees? Point 2 especially comes to mind. The SBC exists because of and in support of local churches. SBC entities work from the same Bible and statement of faith as her local churches and hold her staff up to biblical standards. Paid SBC employees work in vocational ministry. Therefore, why shouldn’t SBC entities base salaries on estimates of what the mean income is from all SBC churches?
Or something like that….
I’m “retired” from the pastorate now, but was there or 30 years. I was, indeed, always underpaid. I never had benefits such as health insurance and retirement plans. At my last church, my “outrageous” (in fact underwhelming) pay caused numerous, anonymous, internet comments about my lavish lifestyle and my bankrupting of the church. It’s a reality, yet most pastors prefer not to speak up about it. Thanks for speaking for them.
Curt -
Thanks for your words. You are not alone in your sentiments.
Good thoughts Tom. I think that is the hardest part about applying for ministry positions is feeling you will be judged as more interested in money than ministry if we ask about salary or even cost of living raises in current positions. Many of us have to ask that question though because many of us have families to care for and support.
I definitely relate with number one. It is almost deceptive to present a compensation package as a salary package when much of it is going to insurance, retirement etc. All good things, but not an accurate predictor of what the pastor is actually bring home to pay for bills, housing and food.
Dr. Rainer – I graduated from the Billy Graham School in Louisville in 2002. I would like to request a speaking engagement from you. How do I contact you? Email me please or pm through FB. Thanks. Michael Mason
Well written; I’ve been on both sides of the scenario over the years as a pastor. Something tells me a lot of Pastors might not “share” but will “like,” “favorite,” “retweet,” and whatever else they can do to non-nonchalantly expose people to what you said!
hahaha
Dr. Rainer,
My church in particular did much study on local salaries, and we decided on a generous amount for our pastor. After the decision was made, he was in the top 5 paid in our state and we were glad to be able to do that. But, my concern is, for a few years now our church has had some very difficult financial stress. He has gracefully taken two pay cuts over the years, and is trusting The Lord and the congregation to care for him. We pay all other expenses as well, insurance, cell phone, mortgage compensation etc. Even now, his salary is burdensome yet again and there is obviously no desire to cut pay again. We love and care deeply for our pastor, but we feel stuck. Do you have any advice? On top of all this, we are an elder lead church down to one elder, which we do not believe is biblical, but we cannot afford to compensate another, and no lay pastor has stepped forward. I trust our Sovereign Lord, but please pray.
I will pray Jared. Sometimes, from a human perspective, there are no easy answers.
I think it is truly sad to hear Christians who feel the need to burden those who give more of their heart and dedication to their churches than any ceo ever would for their company. Jesus’ ministry was supported by rich women who followed him around and paid for everything. How’s that for a Biblical model for compensation. Luke 8.
good word, Dr. Rainer. Thank you! Now how do I get this into the hands of my elders without it looking self-serving. This has always been my struggle.
The self-employment tax issue is another one that will eat up what appears to be a generous salary. How does one address that?
Steve-
That is a great issue for discussion. I may do so in a future blog. Thanks.
Look into 4361 exemption
Thank you for this. So true. I was forced out of my church recently because other churches helped us out financially over some major bills in our life because our church couldn’t pay us more. They took this as financial mismanagment on our part, yet we couldn’t afford to live on what they paid us.
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away…
One December business meeting, the newly formed finance committee (unwittingly) stated something to this effect: “When you total everything up, it comes out to $_______.” They had lumped salary, housing allowance, retirement, health insurance, utilities on the parsonage, the fair rental value of the parsonage, and the mileage reimbursement into one figure. The congregation walked away thinking, “Our pastor makes $_______ a year.”
For a couple of years after that, the vast majority of the people who were present in that business meeting still thought, “Our pastor makes $______,” and they operated accordingly. In reality, the pastor made about 60% of the figure that had been stated… before taxes.
Let’s just say the figure thrown out in that business meeting was $35,000. It wasn’t quite that high, but the math’s easier this way. Let’s also say his actual gross income was 60% of that, which sounds about right. The pastor was actually “making” $21,000 a year. Subtract from that health insurance, retirement, and, of course, taxes. What’s left? Not much.
But everybody in the church thought he was making $35,000 a year.
Does anyone else see a problem?
Dr. Rainer-
An inscription somewhere reads, “The hope of democracy depends on the diffusion of knowledge.” Given that Baptist churches operate according to democratic processes and that pastors really aren’t in a good position to “diffuse knowledge” when it comes to ministerial compensation (because it always seems self-serving, even when it’s not), do you have any suggestions, recommendations, or wild ideas about how our denominational entities (local associations, state & national conventions) can help churches better understand the issues? I realize the resources are available, but many churches never reach out for help because they either don’t want it or don’t know it’s available.
Drew -
There is no quick-fix solution, but more and more voices are addressing this issue. I will continue to be one of them.
When a pastor lives in a parsonage and pays nothing to live there, everything he makes is spending money! No household bills is not a realistic way to live and still relate to your parishioners. Pastors should not be paid according to the salaries of their parishioners, after all, those people all have differing educations, licenses, and careers, not to mention, rates of pay!
When we decide pastoral salaries we should pay them according to their education, responsibilities and experience – the very same way everyone else in the USA is paid! Not according to emotion, pity or esteem!
Jeanine,
Ok, let’s take my husband’s salary. He has a 4 year degree from an accredited University in music. Then he went to a Seminary, also accredited, for an additional 3-4 years for a Master’s Degree also in music and worship. He makes roughly $19.200 a year in gross salary. You are right that he doesn’t pay rent or utilities. We do pay our own health insurance at this time. So that is a household bill we do pay, add to the fact that we are never enough people to qualify for any kind of group rate. If we were to take out our denominational health insurance offering through Guidestone, which is amazing and we would love to do, it would be $700 per month for our family of 5. That would be 2 of his paychecks. So now we’re trying to operate on $700 a month “spending money” to pay gas, car insurance, car loans (possibly), children’s educational expenses, clothing and groceries.
I just wanted you to see some real numbers on that spending money.
I try to follow the letter of the law as it relates to paying taxes, and, from that perspective, would like to offer some clarification.
While it is true that pastors live in parsonages “rent free,” pastors must, according to tax law, pay state income tax and the full Social Security tax on the Fair Rental Value of the parsonage, fully furnished.
Pastors are also supposed to pay state income tax and the full Social Security tax on any utilities paid by the church on the pastor’s behalf.
So, even though it’s “rent free,” it’s really not, because pastors must pay these taxes… out of their salaries, which are also taxed (tax on “salary” = federal income tax + state income tax + the full Social Security tax).
Good responses to Jeannie by S and Drew. It’s unfortunate that many church members have the same misperceptions articulated by Jeannie.
Those were very good responses, however, I was a youth pastor of a very large youth ministry and was paid $1 per year so I am well aware of the inside of church ministry. Since all of you are highly educated I am sure you went into this with your eyes wide open! There is little money in music and ministry unless The Lord gives it. EVERYTHING you have come from Father. Ask him for more. Be bold enough to tell the board of your church what you need and stop whining. Has The Lord failed to meet your every need? Perhaps we are underpaid in ministry because money complicates and sidetracks many lives. We have just enough; not too much so we forget God and not too little so we have to steal! Praise Jesus for all you have – you are blessed!
I’m truly sorry if you took my comments as condescending in any way. They were not meant to belittle or condescend but to edify. We haven’t whined or complained to our congregation. We are grateful for the roof over our heads and the heat in the winter. The suggestion that I am ungrateful hurts me, and I believe that it hurts the kingdom of God as well. We’re all here trying to better ourselves and our ministries, or in my case, support my husband and God’s ministry through him. We need to find ways to be uplifting to one another or no one is going to see the Light through us. I will be, as I have been, praying about my attitude. Thank you for allowing me to see that my comments here could be hurtful to someone reading them. I will strive to do better from this moment forward.
Along with S Files, I, apologize if my comments sounded condescending. My comment regarding taxation was meant strictly for clarification. I am truly grateful for the opportunity to serve the Lord, and, yes, He does supply our every need. Ministerial taxes are complicated, and my desire is simply that more people understand ministerial taxes.
Neither comment sounded condescending to me. I serve a great church and am well-compensated, though I haven’t had a raise in several years. My problem is the constant tension between trusting God to meet the needs of my family and the equally Biblical mandate to provide for my family. When you figure out how to resolve that tension, please let me know.
Jeanine,
You sound offended and upset. You should consult your Bible for how pastor should be paid while your reading stop by matt18 and read it …repeatedly.
Dr. Rainer,
As to your second point, I would not put too much stock in denominational guides on how to compensate pastors. The problem is that they generally end up averaging what is rather than what ought to be.
Instead, it would be wise for churches to consider what other people make both in the church and in the community. In particular, it is wise to look at non-profit jobs that require similar education and experience. What does an Assistant Principle in the local school make? Do you think your pastor should be paid the same as a 28 year old Captain in the Army or a 35 year old Major? The military publishes salaries, Basic Allowance for Subsistence figures, and housing allowances – and you can find the housing allowance for the zip code your church is in. Such studies won’t provide a church with a point but they will provide a church with a range. I doubt anyone wants to serve on the search committee that tells candidates that we pay pastors less than 60% of what the Assistant Principle at our elementary school makes.
It is also important to refer back to your first point. Comparing the total compensation package of a pastor to the salary of people in other fields grossly distorts the results yet it happens all of the time.
Best wishes,
David
Excellent points David.
Epescially considering pastoring was considered the most stressful job in America by many life insurance companies second only to surgeons.
If you think the situation is bad with pastors, I’d hate to hear the stats on Christian school teachers. Against the conventional wisdom at least in some circles, there are a good number of men in teaching positions at these schools, particularly in middle and high school, and of course some are coaches as well. At the Christian school where I previously taught, there were many male employes and most of those had families, and just about to a man, we had summer jobs as well. Believe me, if the attitude is that pastors should get by on a side dish of peanuts and a main course of faith, then the attitude toward Christian school teachers is that they should lick the peanut shells off the pastors’ floor and scrape by on so-so faith (usually not credited with a lot faith; otherwise we’d have obviously chosen to be pastors!) To add insult to injury, I was at the time attending a church where the pastor was overpaid–not disgustingly TBN style overpaid–but definitely overpaid, and this stood out in sharp relief when the economy tanked. And all of the local pastors got a huge tuition discount for their kids and in fact I think tuition may have been free. The counter to this may be that I am comparing apples to oranges, and in one sense this is true, but in another sense, it stands as a valid comparison because if the argument is that pastors should be paid equivalent to other professionals with the same kind of education and credentials and experience, then shouldn’t Christian teachers as well? I mean, shouldn’t we at least try to pay them, say, 60 to 70, hey maybe strive for even 80 percent of the salary of other teachers in the area with similar education, degree, experience, etc. And benefits, ha! I won’t even go there at this point. I’ll shut up with what may well be the very faulty underlying assumption behind the lack of compensation: We draw an unbiblical distinction between “church work” or so-called “full time Christian ministry” and the work everyone else does and therefore we want to treat these kinds of work differently in various ways. Every Christian is called to a vocation by God and glorifies God in that vocation; God is just as pleased in Christ with one Christian’s dedicated work for him as another’s, whether he is preaching a sermon or she is nursing a baby. That is a Roman Catholic error, but it is happening here as well, with what I think are only surface differences. In Rome, if you are called to so called spiritual work, then you are supposedly elevated spiritually and morally above the common parishoner and therefore treated and thought of very differently; here it seems that the same thinking is afoot–what the pastor is called to is so different and special and spiritual that we can and even should treat him differently in compensation, in the hours demanded of him even if he has a family, etc. That is not Protestant, not wise, and most of all, not Biblical.
**To clarify, since my sentence order above may cause confusion, the Roman Catholic error that I am referring to is the following: We draw an unbiblical distinction between “church work” or so-called “full time Christian ministry” and the work everyone else does and therefore we want to treat these kinds of work differently in various ways.
The following is NOT the Roman Catholic error, but is a sound, biblical idea about work: God is just as pleased in Christ with one Christian’s dedicated work for him as another’s, whether he is preaching a sermon or she is nursing a baby.
Hope that clears things up.
I salute the pastors (and their wives) who endure the financial hardship to stay in the ministry. I was full-time for nine years…have now returned to a full-time secular job and pastor part-time. It is not nearly as rewarding but it is necessary. One issue was health insurance which I desperately need….another issue was the pay. My predecessor often said, “The custodian makes more than I make.” And he was right on the mark. God bless all of you!
Thanks for your post. As a youth minister I had to make the gut wrenching decision to leave a church that I loved due to financial issues. I have often wondered whether I had been carnal instead of spiritual, or selfish instead of unselfish. I know that I didn’t have selfish motives, but it hurts when you know people you love think you were just using them as a “stepping stone.” I also doubted myself because a mentor that I love and trust doubted me. Anyway, I still love those people but I still need reassurance from time to time because the experience still stings. Your post was timely. Thank you.
D.K.
Is it ok for a faithful pastor at small church with very low pay to prayerfully consider a vancant pastor position at a larger church that is able to paid a larger salary? Of course he will seek God’s direction just like any other Christian working in any other profession. Even though he is genuinely pastoring for the right reasons, is it wrong for him to desire a better pay, benefits, to be close to home or to wanna live in a different state?
My husband and I are 37 year non denominated missionaries in Haiti. We were there for the quake, all the coup d’etats, hurricanes and disasters that never made the news. Every day we minister the gospel to 2,000,000 Haitians through our Creole Christian TV show that is aired on 100 stations from Boston to the farthest South and East border of Haiti. We have never received a salary, no one has ever asked us if we need one. We do not have a compensation package, our health ins and life ins is over $1000.00/month! We may have to discontinue both this year. Stress? We fast when the stress threatens to derail our lives and ministry. In six months in 2009 I didn’t eat for 82 days. It works God sent a miracle of provision. Leave the field b/c of pay issues? We’d sooner deny Christ. I wish someone would write an article about missionaries and what it means to leave family, friends, country and all the conveniences of the States w no pay!
What would you say to a church that has decreased in attendance by 80% in the past 10 years, (current pastor has been in place 5years) yet pays the pastor the same as they did when running 4-500? The pastor, while experienced in ministry, is not a seminary grad, yet makes in base salary alone, 150% of what an avg professional with a M.S. degree makes. Couple that with a consistent deficit in the church and you have a picture of our reality. The congregation is largely unaware of the salaries ( all are lumped together into one budget line). The personnel committee is unwilling to discuss them.
Dear Confused,
I am a pastor. While churches vary in practice I think the congregation should know exactly what they are paying each pastor and it would be a reasonable think for you to ask the leadership of your congregation to provide greater clarity.
I am sorry to hear that your church has experienced such a sharp decline in membership but this may not be very good reason to cut the pastor’s salary. One of the regrettable aspects of pastoral compensation in the U.S. is that it is commonly assumed that pastors should be paid more for serving in larger churches. At the same time, when pastors leave small churches to go to larger churches which pay better – we become upset that the pastor is doing it just for the money. We can’t really have it both ways. Furthermore, a church is not a small business enterprise. Growth or decline in membership is not a reflection of the pastor’s faithfulness. I suspect that your pastor is under an enormous amount of pressure because of the declining membership and the congregation should make an extra effort to lift him up in prayer.
I’m really surprised that your pastor makes 150% of what a typical professional with a master’s degree makes in your community. I live in an expensive part of the country, but where I live that would put the pastor’s salary around $150k not including benefits. As a pastor, I know a lot of other pastors and I don’t know any who pastor churches of less than 1,000 people who are paid like that. You may want to check to get the facts straight. Please remember to do an apples-to-apples comparison. As Thom Rainer pointed out, many people wrongly compare the total compensation package for a pastor (including the benefits) with the salary of non-pastors.
Best wishes,
David
David, thanks for your reply. In our local area, most professionals with master’s degrees earn 40k annually. Our pastor, who only holds a B.S. degree earns 60k base salary alone. Our church size is largely irrelevant except to show that while people, and thus giving, has decreased, the salary has not. Your suggestion earlier to check military pay tables isn’t a bad idea. Checking federal tables for chaplaincy shows him to be overpaid (remember he’s not educationally qualified without an m.div.) and in the military he’s not far from par with a senior captain. So, thanks for your comments, but our current situation is different than you imagined.
I didn’t read all 75 comments, but I’m wondering has anyone addressed the issue of “cost of living increase”? In a time when most workers are NOT receiving and increase, and in some cases are cut back, should a church automatically give an increase to the pastor and not other staff members? I did a little research and the “officially” calculated cost of living increase is the lowest it has been since 1975 or so….
I appreciate this article, it was very beneficial as an associate minister. It saddens me that so many people think that ministers should simply do their job for free. Many will quote Paul and talking about bi-vocational ministry, But here is a little bit of truth about that, Jesus also says no man can serve two masters. Anyone that expects their minister to give full-time pay attention to the church and also work a full-time job is deceiving themselves. If you work a job outside of the church often it causes us to divide our attentions and our focus. Also when you see Moses establishing the priesthood the tribe of Levites was to receive their inheritance their living and their daily meals out of the offerings that were presented to the temple, A.k.a. the people of Israel were supposed to support their priests and leaders in ministry. I have been blessed to be employed in full-time ministry at a church that pays us fairly, but I do not do this position for the money because if I was working for the money, I would do something else! For all of those trying to get out of paying your pastors, please pay your pastor!
I want to start out by saying that my church has AMAZING pastors and I feel pastors should be compensated fairly, but I don’t understand this focus on salary vs package and comparing pastoral position to a secular one on the basis of salary alone for one main reason…
The components of a pastoral “package” are often much more than the compensation package of a secular vocation. House and utility payments are almost never included with secular vocations and not having to pay those is quite significant, even if the taxes still needed to be paid. Remember that those of us in secular vocations not only pay house and utility payments, but we too pay taxes on the income used to make those payments.
So yes, please pay our clergy a fair salary, but it would be ridiculous to not factor the entire package.
Hi Mark,
I think you are misunderstanding the point. Yes, of course the housing allowance should be considered as part of a pastor’s salary. That isn’t the problem. Here’s what is:
If you ask a school teacher how much she or he makes, he or she will NOT include Health Insurance, the school district’s FICA contributions, the employer’s contribution to a retirement plan, reimbursement for expenses, etc … as part of the salary number that he or she gives to you. Oddly, many people consider all of those things part of their pastor’s salary. This creates a real apples to oranges comparison which makes it look like the pastor is doing far better financially than he is (This is a real problem in the broader church. Studies suggest that 3 out of 4 pastor’s wives wish their husband would leave the ministry for ANY other job because their husbands are paid so poorly).
A simple publicly available set of data exists to compare the salary of pastors to and that is to Commissioned Officer’s Salaries in the U.S. Military. The housing allowance for military officers is taxed the same way that the housing allowance for pastors is taxed (FICA but not income). Furthermore, the housing allowance is adjusted to reflect local cost of living conditions (e.g. It is much higher in Boston, MA than in Jackson, MS) so it is easy to find the allowance provided for a city near you. The only additional factor is that Military personnel are also paid a Basic Allowance for Subsistence (BAS) which you would have to add in:
1. Decide what level you want to compare your pastor to. I made Captain in the Marine Corps at 27 after 5 years of service and a B.S. degree. You will probably want to choose a range between a Captain with 6 years of service and a Major with 14 years of service. In my judgment, there is no need to pay a pastor the type of salary that a Lt. Col. or a Col. makes.
2. Look up and write down the Salary, Housing Allowance, and BAS for the rank and experience you selected.
3. Remember that the military also provides officers with retirement, health care, some life insurance, disability insurance, half of FICA, and essentially all expenses such as for business travel. It also provides for continuing education (It might be a good idea to ask if your church is paying for continuing education for your pastor). Therefore, none of these items should be considered in your pastor’s salary if you want to make an Apples to Apples comparison.
4. Do the comparison.
My guess is that the 45-55 year old pastor with a Masters or Doctoral degree in your church is making less than the 28 year old Army Captain with a B.S. and six years of work experience. You might want to ask if that is reasonable.
Best wishes,
David
David I love your example, let me add this thought. While housing allowance, and tax may be the same for clergy and military, your average soldier when he gets off duty can throw back a few beers, jeer at women, maybe get in abar room fight. Curse at subordinate soldiers (if your a sargent etc.) And the list goes on. Not one will lose his job for cheating on his wife. However the pastor can do none of this. We pay him not only for his life on the pulpit but mostly off the pulpit which is even more important. What’s the price tag for integrity
Hi,
Since I saw it come up several times throughout the conversation, I just thought I’d put it out there for those who may be interested…whether you are a pastor or on a board who makes decisions about paying the pastor…we have been members of a Christian Healthshare Network for over 8 years, and we absolutely love it. NEVER do we ever want to go back to “real” health insurance. We’ve had several needs over the years, all of which have been shared completely. Not only do we save tons of money as opposed to paying “real” health insurance premiums, we can choose our doctors and never have to worry about paying for things (through a premium) that we don’t agree with biblically. Plus, it is an incredible network of prayer and support. Love it, love it, love it. Samaritan Ministries. (Oh, by the way, we aren’t in paid ministry, but our church pays our pastor’s family share.)
During times of economic hardship, the church elders took out a loan so they could pay the pastor. Is this permissible, and does this follow generally accepted business practices? And, most importantly, is this biblical?
David -
Borrowing to pay salaries is not a best practice, but it sounds like there may have been some extenuating circumstances.
I am a new elder, ordained and installed in January. Going over some budget items, there is a loan outstanding from a commercial firm that was made because there was not enough offerings coming into the church. The pastor is a full time pastor, with about 80 people in regular attendance on Sunday. During hard economic times, there were not enough offerings coming in to pay the pastor. A commercial loan was taken out against the assets of the church property, so that the pastor could be paid. The pastor is also the treasurer.
Does this follow generally acceptable business practices? Are there red flags that I should be concerned about? Was what was done conform with biblical principles? Should an outside, independent audit be conducted of the church books?
Any information would be helpful.
David -
See my earlier response.
Dear David,
1. The pastor should NEVER be the treasurer. This doesn’t mean that your pastor has done anything wrong but it does mean that the church hasn’t safeguarded against the appearance of impropriety. I would encourage you and your fellow Elders to elect someone unrelated to the pastor to be the new treasurer as soon as possible.
2. The Bible forbids us from assuming that that something has been done wrong without having clear evidence to that fact. Instead of worrying about red flags, why not ask the Elders who were already serving to explain why they pursued this course of action? Keep in mind that you cannot undo the past you can only learn from it.
3. You present the issue of the loan as though you discovered this matter when you became an Elder. As a pastor, I want to encourage you to share this type of information with the whole congregation. There are many matters related to counseling which Elders must keep in strict confidence yet there are others, such as the financial condition of the church, that the congregation should be kept fully informed about. The failure to disclose those things which the Elders should be sharing with the congregation will erode the confidence that the congregation should have in its leadership. Most congregations wish that their Elders would communicate more with them about the state and direction of the church.
4. A church of 80 people should not require an outside audit. Your books should be sufficiently simple that an audit committee made up of people from the church (other than the pastor and treasurer) can easily see that all the money has been appropriately accounted for.
Best wishes,
David
Thanks, David Booth, for a more comprehensive response.
Dear David,
Thank you for the help. I appreciate your insight.
The reason for my concerns is that the pastor is the treasurer, and he was the one who took out the loan. The reason he gives is that several years ago, during tough economic times, there were not enough offerings coming into the church. Bills had to be paid, and there was not much left over to pay the pastor. The pastor took out the loan so that he could put food on the table.
There were two elders who agreed to the loan. One died a year and a half ago. He was the pastor’s father in law, who resided with the pastor. The other is a man who does not know how to say no.
There were two additional loans taken out, one for a lawnmower, and the other for a copy machine. Both of these loans are outstanding. I’ve been contacting Crown Financial Ministries, as well as Resource Ministries for their advice. I can find no where in Scripture where it is permissible to go into debt to purchase stuff.
I am now in the process of working up a budget, as well as getting our church out of debt.
Thanks for your help,
David
David who ordained you as an elder of the church, was it the pastor? If so he obviously trust you. If you have any question try asking him first. So there is mutual trust. Why assume when yo can just ask. I’m sure he knows your looking at books right so he knows you see the loans . If your motive is pure then other shouldn’t be any problem just asking him for clarity.
*there
There is a pastor of a church who is well taken care of with salaries and benefits, considering the size of the church which is only about 250. But, the problem is, this pastor has some personal financial stewardship issues that puts him in a negative cash flow inspite of his generous salary. Now he applied to another church because they offered him a higher pay. Is this a right reason for a pastor to do?
I found the formula for a pastors salary:
Take the value of your marriage, family, peace, self worth, wisdom, comfort, courage, health, etc. Oh and let’s not forget your SOUL. then multiply it by the number of people in your church. When you come with the number. Then consider the Pastor is called to be the” WATCHMAN”FOR ALL OF IT. Hebrews 13:7
All the promises of God are received by faith, faith come by hearing, HOW CAN THEY HEAR WITH OUT A PREACHER Romans10:14. ….pay the pastor
I have spent more than 50 years in churches throughout the US. I have seen pastors who were barely getting by and I’ve seen some who lived VERY comfortable lives. I have seen pastors who were on-call, 24/7 seemingly, who taught a SS class and preached Sunday AM, PM, and Wednesdays and were also at Thursday night visitation. I’ve also seen pastors who preached one sermon, Sunday morning, had an associate take care of any hospital/home-bound visits, and turned his Sunday morning preaching duties over to various ordained lay members in the congregation about 8-10 times a year.
The latter pastor is the pastor of the church I attend now. His compensation package is around $70K, to include benefits. His wife works outside the home at a bank and makes around $35-40K a year. So, the pastor is getting a $75K compensation package for preaching 40 or so times a year. He isn’t involved in any of the church ministry outreaches (has never accompanied church members who go out to feed the poor or provide meals at a local “safe house), spends only a few hour each week at the church (two 4-hour days) and when he is there, stays sequestered in his office the whole time, and has little to no contact with the church body outside of his Sunday morning service. He recently announced to the church that this would be his last pastorate (he’s in his mid 50’s) … that he plans on staying here until he is carried out in a box.
We have an AWANA program and Wednesday Night Bible study that are both led by lay members. The pastor doesn’t attend the Bible study, feeling his time is better spent wandering the halls and speaking with AWANA parents and church members who are in the area.
Nice work if you can find it.
Dear Jared,
1. First, and most importantly, the Internet is a totally inappropriate place for you to be talking about your pastor. Please bring your concerns to your church’s leadership in private.
2. Second, seventy-five thousand dollars per year (including benefits) is the equivalent of around $50,000 to $55,000 per year in a salaried job. Let me be blunt: That is a terrible salary (and this isn’t for someone starting out as an Assistant Pastor – this is for someone who would be considered to be in his prime earning years in the private sector). I say that this is a terrible salary even though I know that it is more than many other pastors are making. Why? Try to imagine any business anywhere in the United States advertising: “Help wanted. Must have three years of graduate school. After 20 or 25 years of service you might eventually make $55,000.” I am not suggesting that pastors should be paid like business executives, but by what rationale do you conclude that paying your experienced middle aged pastor meaningfully less than a 28 year old Army Captain makes somehow constitutes a lavish salary that allows him to live a “VERY comfortable” life? BTW – I was a Captain in the Marine Corps in 1989 so don’t try to tell me I don’t know how difficult being a military officer is.
3. You mention that the pastor’s wife has a job. Why? Whether she works at home or at a paying job is none of the congregation’s business.
4. Please realize that you have no idea what your pastor is spending his time doing. You are just filling in the blanks with your own imagination. You might be surprised to know how much time your pastor spends doing marriage counseling that you will never know about because he is rightly protecting the confidentiality of your fellow church members.
In Christ,
David
David,
Goodness. Lot of ire, wrongful speculation, and outright accusation in your reply there, pastor. Seeing you know nothing more than what you could glean from my posting, you sure didn’t have any trouble jumping to a lot of conclusions. But, having looked at other replies you’ve made in this forum, that’s not to be unexpected.
There is no need for my going to the church leadership. The pastor is it and I’ve been to him on more than one occasion regarding his lack of participation in church ministries and his unwillingness to conduct more than one service a week. I also know he’s relayed to me what his week is comprised of, so your charge that I have no idea of what he does – or that I’m “just filling in the blanks with your own imagination,” – is incorrect. Again.
I made no mention of this pastor’s salary being lavish or even VERY comfortable … if you re-read my previous comment, you’ll find you’ve again jumped to the wrong conclusions. Interesting.
And you’ll also notice that my comment about his wife working had only to do with the extra income she brought into the household and nothing to do whether or not she should be doing that – or whether or not it was the congregation’s business. Again, you jump to a wrong conclusion. Seems to be a trend developing here, no?
I’ll go back to my original posting … there are some pastors who do VERY little pastoral work and get paid well for the little they do. Nice work if you can get it. I will also add, there are some pastors who are so blinded by their own prejudices/biases that they can’t correctly render an accurate reading and assessment of a posting.
Quick question about #1: What is health insurance?
Raising 3 kids and a disabled wife on 31,200 a year. (While trying to pay for grad school).
Had to move out of the parsonage to get my kids into a school where their life wasn’t n danger (long story). Started programing to pay for rent and other expenses.
We are in the middle of packing to move away from a congregation that brought us here under false pretenses. They lied, plan and simple. Made us believe they could pay my pastor spouse a fair living. However, after we were here, we find out their history is to keep a pastor (underpaid) for three or four years and then drive him/her out because they’ve run out of money. Tired of being lied to by congregations.
I’d like to know why our housing is added to his salary also. If there is a parsonage, which in my experience is always a rundown mess, we have to pay income taxes on the fair rental value. How can this be fair when we’re forced to live in THEIR house for THEIR convenience? What other job owns a person and his/her family, controlling every moment of their lives? Who in their right mind would put up with these conditions. I wish my pastor spouse would leave the ministry and all of it’s stress.
This very thing happened to me and was a big reason I made a quick move from one church to another. A search committee gave me a proposal in writing that my pay would be a certain amount, and that I would work with the finance team to break down a larger number to reflect a good package that suited me. The committee could never get their hands on a real church budget, so acted in good faith I was being told the truth. Long story short, my pay ended up being about $17,000 short… with line items being lumped into what was considered my pay that I would NEVER be able to use or use up. A few line items are shared reimbursement line items that staff and deacons could get reimbursed from as well.
I can’t tell you how awful I felt about pay being an issue… I never bring it up. I did work up the nerve to bring it up to our deacon chair… who told me I should feel lucky just to have a job in this economy. To my wife and I, this issue coupled with some others really spoke to the heart of the church, and so we decided to move on after precisely one year.
I learned a lot in that experience… what questions to ask, etc. However, since I am pretty and that was my first time in the role of senior pastor, I struggle with how I will explain this to another church down the road if I am ever called to explore my options.
I wish more search committees would look at blogs like this and seek help from associations or state conventions.
Maybe another topic for a different day is to discuss why you think smaller churches have such lofty requirements. I interviewed at a church of 35 that wanted me to have or show proof i was working toward a doctorate and 7 years of pastoral experience, with the pay being about 20,000 a year. I spoke to a much larger church that had requirements, but not nearly as rigid as those. Maybe I should study that complexity for my doctoral work!
Thanks again for your great post.
I am pretty… but I left out a word. I am pretty young!
All I can say after reading all these posts is I’m glad I’m a United Methodist Pastor.
My wife and I just started seminary, and I’ve been struggling over wanting to be a full time pastor. I want to pastor in order to love and care for the Lord’s flock…but I have a hard time coming to peace about receiving full time pay for this. Would love to come to a place where I could pursue this calling without these types of anxieties. For some reason, just wonder if its selfish that I want to be full time vs. bi-vocational?
Young Seminarian -
Take a first step and go bivocational. I think you will get a sense of God’s leadership in that context.
Thank you! I think I may have opportunities like that while in seminary. It’s difficult to explain the anxiety I have about it. All the pastors I’ve ever had have all been full time and I have absolutely no problem with them being full time either (I think I was blessed because of it actually). I wonder if because of these reservations I have, this is the Lord’s way of leading me to bi-vocational ministry. On the other side of the coin, I have absolutely no desire to be bi-vocational. My personality-type, I really like to pursue one thing and really put my best into it. The idea of trying to balance family, pastoring, work, and even my own soul seems like it would be an overwhelming task that would be more of a burden than a joy. Any thoughts?
Dear Young Seminarian,
Two pieces of good news:
1. First, you don’t have to work everything out in advance. You just need to keep taking the next step in being faithful to God. Many men beginning down the path toward pastoral ministry waste a lot of time and emotional energy on all sorts of what-ifs about the future. Don’t be one of them. You know and are known by the Living God who holds the future in His hands. Psalm 23 isn’t just a great Psalm to read and to teach to other people. It is part of God’s word to you. It will remind you that the Good Shepherd will be with you for your good wherever you go.
2. Second, the LORD has given people to help you think through these choices. These people include your pastor and the Elders from your local church. They both know you and know about the demands of pastoral ministry. I’m sure that they would be happy to talk with you and to pray with you about how you are answering God’s call upon your life.
In Christ,
David