While working on an unrelated research project, I recently came across some data published by the Hartford Institute of Religion Research. Though the information was five years old, it still seemed highly relevant today. In essence, the data showed that non-denominational churches are now the second largest Protestant group in America. Only the Southern Baptist Convention is larger.
Here are some of the fascinating nuggets from that study:
- There are more than 12 million people who affiliate with non-denominational churches.
- The research found at least 35,000 non-denominational churches in America.
- Non-denominational churches are in 88% of the counties in the United States.
- Non-denominational churches are one of the top five largest religious groups in 48 of the 50 states and the District of Columbia.
In light of the growth of these churches, I conducted an informal Twitter poll and asked why people are moving to non-denominational congregations from churches affiliated with denominations. Here are the top eight responses in order. There is obvious overlap in some of the responses.
- Denominational churches have a negative reputation. Some respondents used the phrase “negative brand” to communicate this reason.
- Denominations are known more for what they are against than what they are for.
- There is too much infighting and politics in denominations.
- The denominational churches are too liberal. From what I can tell from these respondents, they are current and former members of mainline churches.
- There is a general waning of institutional loyalty in institutions such as denominations.
- Denominations have inefficient systems and organizations. They are too bureaucratic.
- Some of the respondents could see no perceived benefit to belonging to denominations.
- Denominations are not good stewards of their financial resources.
I plan on doing a second poll in the near future to see how respondents view denominations positively. In the meantime, let me hear from you.
Our family actually did just that recently, mostly because of politics and power groups, but also spiritual immaturity within the leadership positions and no one willing to confront it.
You may find that when you have been in the non-denominational Church for a while, that they have problems too.
I am not particularly a fan of non-denominational churches. I converted to the Catholic Church from Lutheran. Although the two churches are said to be similar and liturgically, they may be. But I have a completely different feeling in the Catholic Church than I did in the Lutheran Church. I think that the environment is the main reason. In the Lutheran Church, there was high pressure to be involved and people were always in others’ personal business, and gossipy. In the Catholic Church, it is usually emphasized to do unto others. It is said in so many different ways. As an example, if the seven deadly sins are brought up, we as Catholics are told to look at actions and values, and see if any of the seven deadly sins fall into those.
A friend of mine was raised Lutheran, and I went to church with her. When I went to church with her and her family, I saw a side that I was not too impressed by. Everyone in that church was bigoted and arrogant about their beliefs being superior. I don’t know if every single Lutheran Church does this, but my friend’s church believed that because they were forgiven of their sins because Jesus died for their sins, it did not matter if they sinned or not, or how they treated people. And this showed in pretty much the whole congregations’ behavior. They made me feel inferior, and I was feeling unhappy and even stressed after going to that church.
I probably went off on a tangent, but back to non-denominational churches. My friend who was Lutheran now goes to a non-denominational church, and she is always asking me if I want to go. I always tell her know, and she always sounds surprised. Given my impression of my friend and what I have seen where her past church behavior stood, I think that she chose the non-denominational churches because she appears to not stay in one church for very long. She goes where the trend appears to be-which it is now mega churches. For all I know, she will eventually grow tired of that church and go somewhere else.
Sounds like you are judging your friend. In Catholic churches isn’t that considered a no no? Or is that the other religion that follows that rule? Maybe your friend just has not yet felt truly connected to a church yet & she is testing the waters till she finds the right fit? Kinda like the way you moved into the catholic church from lutheran? Don’t be the pot calling the kettle black. just be happy your friend is trying to find peace in a church, find god & have a relationship with him. Far too many people don’t even attend church. I’d say she has 1 leg up on them.
great
I call them “Feel Good ” Churches…. whatever feels good ….Many people refer to it as Catholic Guilt… The Catholic Faith is not for the weak, it is not for people that do not care for authority or rules handed down by Our Lord to Peter whom he asked to build his Church upon this Rock… also asked his Apostles at the Last Supper as they broke bread together ” DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME ” and you will forever have life, meaning accepting the Lord at Communion , with his Body and Blood, that we Catholics believe is in the host. How wonderful….
I was invited to be “Saved” so many times in my 68 years , my answer has always been, and always will be ” I was Never Lost my friend”, I have adored my Faith…. I feel so blessed that I am able to share in this most wonderful gift of the most Beautiful Faith on earth and that would be the Catholic Faith… these are my opinions only… Whatever you chose to believe is your belief , I am not anyones judge, I am grateful and Blessed …. xoxo
In response to Judy, maybe its time for you to pray before you speak. You said some flat out wrong things in a very unkind manner. Perhaps you should spend more time with adults who were molested by priests and learn the real history of the Catholic Church. Maybe you need to learn the real history of the idol worshiping Catholic Church that hides the 7 deadly sins under it’s cloak of being the first church – which its not. Maybe you are someone who is not even Catholic but found your way here to cause discord. I don’t know. What I know is that the Catholic Church was not the first church. The Catholic Church has a history of lying and is the prime example of how long false marketing claims are believed by the ignorant. I am thankful for non-denominaltional churches and that they do not squeeze the life out of people seeking fellowship with other Christians. Whoever you are, I have prayed for you to learn to love. If you only love those who are Catholic, if you are not telling the truth about the horrors of the Catholic church, then you are living a lie that hurts all those around you all the way into the internet to people that don’t even want to get involved in the battle – but I will for the sake of innocent people who stumble across this page.
Hi Ellen,
I was born, raised and had Catholic education through college. I’m glad to hear that you have a good experience in your Catholic Church. But I want to tell you from a personal experience that some parishes are just as bad as the Lutheran churche you described. I was very involved with parish activities in my last parish from 1990-2010. I was in the choir, woman’s bible study group, RICA and the Lifeteen Program as a youth minister. However, politics ran amuck. If Monsignor liked you, things were great. If you weren’t in “good standing” with him, things could be miserable. Don’t even get me started on gossip. It was like the people in an office by the water cooler. One gentleman in the choir was “rumored” to having an affair with one of the women in the choir. Things got so ugly that they left the parish. I don’t know if there was any truth to it and it’s none of my business. My own personal experience in 2010 was not good. I was diagnosed with a brain tumor and needed surgery. I announced in every group I was a part of, that I needed to take a temporary sabbatical and why. Everyone knew I was single, lived alone and did not have any family to help take care of me. Not one person ever called to see how I was, did I need anything, etc. As a matter of fact, none of these good “Catholics” don’t know if I died from brain cancer. I couldn’t even get communion for the home bound. I left my entire faith which was not an easy decision to make. Being Catholic was not just my religion, it was a part of my identity. About 9 months after my surgery, I was relocated to Florida, however, I was so hurt and angry I didn’t go back to church until Holy Thursday of this year (2016). The priest who gave the Homily was inspiring. I actually had hope. After the Mass was over I approached him and asked if he could help me with spiritual guidance. I’ve been meeting with him twice a month. I’m not even close to the place of peace that I had known all my life but I am trying. I have attended Mass every Sunday since Easter. I’m not willing at this point to jump in and join activities again but I’m a work in progress right now. Just going to Church on Sunday is about all I can handle now. With God’s grace and mercy, I hope to be in that peaceful state I was in nearly 11 years ago. I ask the Holy Spirit every day to give me the strength I need to let go of the hurt and anger that I have been carrying in my heart. It’s sad to think that age 31 I was going through a discernment to become a nun and age 53 I trying to find God again. God Bless.
I don’t know if you will see this, and I realize your post is a bit dated, but I just wanted to send a kind word your way. I hope you are doing well; both from a health standpoint and in your life generally. What you have experienced is major, and the lack of support you received from individuals you believed to be your friends, and from your church in general is unfortunate. I went through a similar situation, and I know it brought me closer to God’; regardless of whether I identify as Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, Baptist, Non-Denominational, etc, there are a handful of core beliefs that tie us together….hang on to those, and know that God has your back. I wish you only the best. Peace.
Dear Sweet Ellen, God hasn’t left you, he has always been with you and remains … so sorry first and foremost for the horrible disease that you were diagnosed with and I am hoping that everything is ok now…. I will remember you, not that this means anything, I am no one but I do care….
Please let your heart open to returning to the Faith that you grew up knowing in your heart that it was real… I think when I hear stories such as these, I think to myself, there have been times for some reason or another, I have not cared for a particular Priest or a Church ( not the Faith) but I have always beleived as we were taught if true beleivers, and that is, we are only in a buliding, we are not there for the people, the Priest or how anyone treats us… we are there for the Body and Blood of Our Lord, Jesus Christ and the Holy Sacrement of the Mass…… since the beginning of time, Mass has been held underground for many countries that practice Communism etc. but Mass was still held and Communion distributed, whether it be a makeshift altar on rock, or in a shack, it is the Mass that we go to hear and I don’t know about you, I feel the Rosary is a gift to me, without it and Mary, we have no hope… Jesus so loved his Mother and he listens to her when she asks for favors when interceding for us, and there are so many that have forgotten her…. God loved her so, that he asked her to be the Mother of Jesus, how can anyone deny the importance of Mary…
When she once appeared many years ago which I am sure you know… she said ” There will not be world Peace until everyone says the rosary.”
God Bless you and I pray Ellen that you have continued good health and your find your way to true Peace…
I care
xoxo
Hi Donna, I loved reading your post. I hope you fell better after the surgery. Unfortunately, people will remain people of the earth. Going to church has become a time to socialize instead of worship. We, who seek and find the love and grace of God should remind ourselves to not worry about other’s reasons of church going, but stay focused on the truth and worship of our Lord, Jesus Christ. If we want others to understand why we worship God the way we do we have to transform and live a life according to Christ’s teachings that He passed down through the apostles’ writings and traditions. May God bless you and continue to guide you to His truth and salvation!
Amin!
As someone who moved from the Evangelical Church to the Catholic Church, (then back–though I attend both a non-denom AND a Lutheran Church now), I had the opposite experience and found all the same issues in the Catholic Church that were present in the Protestant church. I can’t tell you how many people I worship with weekly who are former Catholics because they were longing for probably what your friend is now searching for. I have learned many things from all the church bodies I have been a part of, but there’s something beautiful about the simplicity found in most non-denom churches. Incidentally, our Lutheran Church is very evangelical and is one of the warmest congregations I have ever been a part of. My husband and I have spent approx. 10 years in the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, and it has been a beautiful experience in both the congregations we were members of. There mission is outlined above and they have planted 2 additional churches in our area of Indianapolis that are exploding in growth. I have also been to a number of denominations (Catholic AND Protestant) that are hateful and elitist. No group is immune to the sin of arrogance and pride, and I believe that has a lot to do with the leadership as well. Blessings on you, and as long as we make it our goal to live the Gospel an know Christ more every single day, the rest moot.
People listen, I am a man that sees to truth with the church, today. God, called all of us to be unified in the faith. He didn’t call us to be divided, among each other. For we all are God’s body. So, how can God be divided? The church today has let Satan manipulate the church, with this foolish separation of itself, when it comes to denominations of a church. God didn’t gather his house into separate groups. In God’s eyes, there is no such thing. So, I encourage all of you that’s being manipulated by the division of the evil one, to wake up from your slumber in and unify yourselves, in the faith, as God intended it.
I agree Conrad… in fact, if you look up the word “denomination” it has the connotation of identifying by means of differences (i.e., $1 bill, $5 bill, $20 bill, and $100 bill are different denominations and some are more valued than others). After 50 years of “churches” and “denominations” and “deacon/elder ‘good ole boys club'” operations, we no longer attend institutional churches as we fellowship with a body of former church leaders and members from a few different denominations in our homes. What a blessing!
You converted from one church to another, while I converted to Christ, and the church is his body.
No man comes to the father but through faith in Christ.
There’s no perfect church, as it’s made up of sinners, separated from God by sin. But there are churches that model themselves by God’s word to us. We need to be with other like minded faith filled believers in order to grow in faith.
Russ—very well said. I wish those model churches were easy to find. I’ve been praying for God to lead me to a model church.
Let’s all go to church and focus on God and not at those surrounding us.
We left the catholic church due to the thousands of boys being molested by their priests and the catholic church moves them to other parishes and they do not go to jail. The church is based on many false premises; they even changed the 2nd commandment because they due bow down and worship idols, like Mary. The bible clearly says bow to no man and Mary bowed to God, she married and had other children; much false prophecy in that church. Lutheran not much better. We left them both.
I find your comment very interesting. I was born and raised as a catholic and then went to the Lutheran church for about 2 years. The big reason I disliked the Catholic Church is bc they seemed to be arrogant and superior. But I’d agree, at the Lutheran church it still seemed that way but to a much lesser degree. I’ve found myself as a nondenominational now bc of these experiences.
I am sorry to hear you had a very bad experience at the Lutheran Church. Jesus died on the cross for every living souls sin.
However believers are suppose to act respectfully when interacting with others.
The Catholic church doesn’t have a good take on the Bible or Jesus Christ.
Jesus did say to knock and the door will be open to you, God willing you will find a Bible Teaching Church.
I am always amazed when people who go to church are surprised they are asked to get involved. That same concept is found in scripture, unless one does not get involved enough to read the scripture.
Gossip has no place in worship, and the “once saved, always saved”, is not taught in any bible I have ever read.
It sounds as if you are happy. But never stop reading, learning. 35,000 different churches, possibly teaching 35,000 ways to worship the same Christ. I do believe there is one passage which speaks of “broad is the way to something or other, and narrow is the way to something or other”. Be well.
I was wondering the same thing, because no religious group or denomination or non-denomination are perfect. Same thing goes on just different groups of people.
I need advice on baptism at 40 im a widow and marriage. Im upset confused I dont understand why the pastor at my church was so mean
Megan, don’t give up on your Faith due to one man, go to another Catholic Chruch, I am sure you will find one you love…. as I said before …. The priest and the building are not the true meaning of why we go to Mass….
Good Luck and God Bless
xoxo
What is your question. There is not reason for anyone to be mean to anyone at church gathering. He could have been firm maybe?
I believe that because no matter how perfect you try to be nobody is
Cilly, we are ALL sinners, and that is why we have Church and our Faith..
It amuses me when I hear someone say that Catholics are hypocrites , that we attend Mass and then sin the same day…
That is part of the Faith, we go to Mass to Thank God for our Blessing, to ask for foregiveness, to recieve his precious Body and Blood and to admit that we are sinners and hypocrites, that is why we are there for goodness sake…. No one but Our Lord is perfect, we are just trying so hard to follow in his divine footsteps …
God Bless
xoxo
so judy, what you are saying that it is ok to sin and be a hypocrite as long as you go to church and ask for forgiveness . that isn’t the way it works. you are supposed to walk with Christ, love your neighbor, and conduct yourself in a manner worthy of Gods love….that is faith.
Catholics worship idols such as Mother Mary she is to be remembered not worship or prayed to that is so let for GOD THE FATHER GOD THE SON AND GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT
No church is perfect. We are all human and we are all different. Not every church will appeal to you, but it doesn’t mean you should speak negatively on a specific church. I was raised as a Catholic. I went to Catholic schools my whole life, but once I got to eighth grade, I felt as if the Catholic Church didn’t fill my needs. I started attending a non-denominational church with my father, and that need was definitely refilled. My father recently passed and I decided to get baptized last year for him and most importantly myself. Just because it doesn’t appeal to you and your needs, doesn’t mean it won’t appeal to others. (:
I agree with you.
I was raised in a Church of Christ and found myself later attending a non-denominational church. At first it was great and I loved the messages but the longer I attended the more it became clear that our worldly beliefs were being included in the the messages.
People were being told that they would be able to bless liquids at home themselves for communion if they believed in their heart a freshly poured glass of water was blessed,that it was.
That even though couples who committed adultery were divorced and the bible tells us in Matthew it is commanded by God that we not remarry, that despite Gods biblical teachings, we were free to remarry because God would want us happy.
Even went as far as saying that the Bible should be read but in the end God’s grace would save us despite any wrongful life we live so that the bible was more for guidelines.
Even though some messages were moving and the people very friendly, I realized I am not a worldly woman, Ive been baptized and am now of God. He tells us right from wrong in the bible and what it commanded by Him. We as humans may fall and make mistakes but not knowingly sin because HE will forgive us anyway. Thats cheap grace and I find His sacrifice so intimate and indescribably humbling because of His love for us that the very least we could do as His children is strive to follow his word to the very best of our abilities and pray to God that when we fail, He guide us to do it better than before.
I dont judge but pray for all my brothers and sisters in Christ that we may all recognize His love for us.
Also, even though I see where you are getting at, my nonden church actually says not to be worldly and to not do things based off of what everyone else does. It also says that, like the Bible says, it’s better to not get married as long as you don’t fall into sin yet ppl everywhere still do it including denominations like Catholic though they are very strict in their teachings. Basically what I think pastors mean when they say getting remarried is okay isn’t saying don’t take God’s word but in a way that you’ve already spiritually added another person besides God into the bunch and that if you are going to fall into sin after divorce, it would in fact be better to remarry than do what God told you not to do in your first marriage.
How long did you attend the Church of Christ. I have been a member for sixty five years. To my knowledge both then and now the Church of Christ is non-denominational. That is unless they have change it in the last hour or so. Churches of Christ are not related to each other. Paul when he established churches in towns, each stood alone except for belief in which they shared. We do not send our money to the Baptist Convention in Ashville, NC, or do we send it to Rome. We use it locally, to help the local church.
Nah. Honestly, I have grown up in a Pentecostal and Non-denominational church and I agree mostly with numbers 2, 5, and 7. But I love non-denominational most because it isn’t against everything in the freaking world. I also believe that it teaches the right ways. I’ve been going to a Methodist church to try it out and I felt uncomfortable because I disagreed with everything and felt it was too judgemental so I think even though everything has its problems, nondem is the best way to go.
All churches are perfect until YOU go there
Amen!
I have always been a non-denominational Christian so I think I can give some insight on Non-Denominational churches.
To Mike (below), we in fact do have a “set of beliefs”. It is very simple. We believe in the trinity; the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe in the virgin Mary and that Jesus Christ died for our sins. We believe in the personal relationship between each individual on this earth and our Father. We confess our sins through prayer and also ask for forgiveness through prayer to our Father. We believe that the Lord is with us every minute of every day and we can have conversation with him at any time. We read & learn from the bible and take it word for word. Nothing more, nothing less.
For Sunday School, we open with worship service then we have an ongoing study of a book from the bible (for example; lets say we started to learn from the Gospel according to Matthew in January.. We will continue reading/learning from this chapter each Sunday until we finish.) & we have a pastor that preaches a sermon afterward. When you spend 45 minutes to an hour on one chapter of a book and actually focus, your understanding grows deeper and deeper. We also have weekly classes and many groups to become a part of.
I can’t speak from experience but from what I have learned when observing people in my life is that religion in some of the denominational churches seem to add a lot of pressure on people and their faith & the practices are very tedious & in-genuine. There are also a lot of rules… It seems that it isn’t as much of a personal experience between you and God that you feel in your heart & soul.. It is more like a practiced routine.. like brushing your teeth because you HAVE to.. This is everything that the Trinity is not. Although this may not be why everyone leaves denominational churches that seems to be why the people I know have converted.
Instead of keeping track of what is exactly right and wrong, non denominational churches to follow these two rules.; (copied offline)
Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
If what you are doing is not honoring these two rules then how can you get confused or question what is right or wrong, you know?
& to the previous writer.. no, we should not sin and we should not continue to sin if we know that what we are doing is sin. This is all explained in numerous books in the Bible if not all. But, we are HUMAN BEINGS! We are not God. We are imperfect. We all sin & it should NEVER be okay to sin. The truth is that we all do it no matter what religion you claim to be. The difference is if we recognize it as sin or not and ask our Father for forgiveness.
“If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” 1 John 1:8-10.
What is even more sad to me is when people pass judgement on a church based on the congregation. This is different than leaving because of the actual practices of the church.. If you leave the Lutheran church because of a friend who makes mistakes then you are not passing good judgement on the church you are attending.. Our relationship with God should be a personal experience.. it isn’t you, your friend and God. Just you and God and Her and God.
Once again, I have never had a denomination but most controversial conversation on “religion” or “denomination” stems from things created from man.. not things of the Word, our book of life.
I hope this helps!
NICE! God bless you & thanks, your message was pleasantly well written.
Christine I couldn’t have written that any better. Very well stated and accurate..
This was truly helpful to me. I am truly considering converting to a non denomination church and this helped me feel good about making this decision. Thanks.
Please remember one thing. You do not “convert to or join a church”. You are added to the church, and the Lords is the one that does that. “Praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved”. I am somewhat amused when I hear preacher on tv said, “join the church of your choice”. Thousands of flavors for that, but are there really thousands of different ways to worship the true and Living God. Rhetorical. Be careful in this matter.
I truly believe when we stand before Christ it’s not going to be about non or denon, but about a personal relationship with him.
AMEN!
Well said!
AMEN!!! So well said, Christine. This is what I have experienced in every non-denominational Christian church I’ve visited and why I’m trying to bring my family along with me.
Well said. I’m also a member of a non denonminational church and I love my church family. I feel that no one should judge anyone about where they attend to serve The Lord and our heavenly father it’s what’s in your heart and soul. As long as you are a child of God your good with me! ?
Touche. I was baptized Catholic. At the end of service, i could not remember what is it was abt. i switched to non and i walk away with an understanding and knowledge. i enjoyed the lesson i’ve learned. i have since moved away from my church of choice, but the sermons are available after each week on-line to watch. Now my family enjoys church from our home. We always a week behind, but i’m sure the Lord will forgive us.
Well said. I could not say it any better.
I Love the way you broke it down. Like you said the Bible don’t lie, neither does God!
Wow! I really liked what you wrote here! It really helped me and I think your church sounds like the place for me 🙂 God bless!
You have a very nice outlook! Thanks for sharing. However, if you believe in the Bible, nothing more, nothing less… why do you put up with the “trinity” teaching. It is not Biblical. Most churches teach the Trinity meaning God and Jesus and the holy spirit are all one in the same. When the Bible says they are “as one”, it means they are in agreement with one another, not that they are actually the same entity. Jesus said many many times that he was sent by his Father, taught by his Father – proof that he is not The Father. The Bible even talks about Jesus being alongside his Father helping him with the creation of mankind and the earth and all in it.
The word “trinity” doesn’t even exist in the Bible. Saying that Jesus is also God is disrespecting God the Almighty!
When Moses asked God what his name was in Exodus he said: “I am who I am.” He said further, “Thus you shall say to the Israelites, ‘I am has sent me to you.” In John 8:56-59 Jesus claimed he knew Abraham who had lived long before him. When the pharisees asked how he could have known him he said ” ‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ The pharisees erupted with anger because Jesus was claiming one of the names of God.
When you look at nature you see the trinity. We, as humans, are Body, Soul, Spirit. We are 3 parts but one. H2O can be three parts but it is one…. there are many examples of this.
I guess others may see this differently. This is how I see it and this is some of what I base my belief in the Trinity on.
Jesus said: “I and the Father are One.” and, ” If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.”
My oh my. I could not disagree with you more. But to each his or her own.
I 100% agree with everything you said! I’m also glad you provided bible proof so it is backed up. Thank you for your amazing and true comment.
For five years I have been doing research on congregational behavior in American Churches and what is happening to Christianity in America. The Barna Group in California dedicates a great deal of time doing Christian research and they have much documented information on their website.
There is a book titled Revolution, written by George Barna, which gives details about what is happening to the church, denominational or other.
Jim and Casper go to Church is another book on the state of the American Church. Jim Henderson is a former pastor and Matt Casper is an atheist. Together they tour the United States visiting various churches, discussing their individual points of view, and then documenting it in their book. Both books, Revolution and Jim and Casper Go To Church are loaded with a world of information about what is happening to Christianity and are recommended reading.
However, basically what is happening to the church boils down to one thing–humanity’s disregard for the moral code of God as it is defined in the Bible, in favor of selfish indulgence that pleases the senses and will not interfere with the individual’s quest for heaven. There is a “watering down” of God’s declared justice and a dedicated effort to cause believers to focus on the love of God without personal sacrifice or accountability to His grace–the death of His Son.
From now until the Lord’s return we will continue to see an exodus from churches regardless of affiliation because He is separating the sheep (true believers and worshipers) from the goats (those who ignore His statues but still want to see heaven).
Christianity today has the appearance of massive spaghetti bowl overpasses in large cities where people are moving around like ants trying to get to their final destination. The conscience of a true Christian is troubled when they hear words from the pulpit that they think deviates from Scripture. They get scared that they will become the “elect that got deceived” as the Scripture mentions and then they move on, looking for a church with Biblical truth flowing from the pulpit.
I am here to tell you that it is difficult to find such a church today. I grew up in a small Southern Baptist Church but because of the hypocritical behavior I experienced first hand, I changed to non-denominational worship while in my thirties. For about 15 years things went well and I never found a reason to question the Word coming from the pulpit. However, I have become a seasoned student of the Bible and in the last eight years I have seen an unbelievable change in many ND churches. About a year ago I moved to a town with several churches and 31000 residents. In the year I have been here, I have attended seven different D and ND churches looking for a Bible teaching church and haven’t yet found one. I am seeking a solution and will probably find one in the kind of church discussed in George Barna’s book, Revolution.
As a seasoned believer, I encourage every believer seeking the true gospel to know what the Bible says and to listen carefully to those who teach. Christians have an enemy whose sole purpose is to distract them from the Christ that saves souls. Be careful and on your guard.
Maybe you should check into The Seventh Day Adventist religion who study and believe in all of the King James Bible. Give it a try, it won’t hurt you.
Sadly to say many religions, non denominational and denominational don’t truly understand the bible. Some don’t want to know certain things in the bible because it would interfere with their worldly things they enjoy.
That church doesn’t certainly ‘study and believe in all of the King James Bible’. It is written,One man esteems one day as more important. Another esteems all days alike…..He who observes the day, to the Lord he observesit, and he who does not, to the Lord he does not….But you, why do you judge your brother?Let no man therefore judge you in eating…drinking…or in regard to a feast day, or sabbath day. Unfortunately, the name of the church is itself a standing rebuke to those who regard all days alike, or those who assemble themselves for worship, regardless of the day. Also, to judge that, ‘many religions…..don’t truly understand the Bible’ is clearly, a fruit of that same tree.
Bill, I would like to say that I am a proud member of the SDA church. I have been my whole life, the things you stated I don’t agree with as it pertains to judging people. We do not judge anyone for the way they worship. All of our jobs is to study the bible and point out error from bible truth. It sounds to me that you are the one judging because someone asked what church should they seek, and another person recommends the SDA church and you respond with negativity. Now for everyone that has been reading these comments, all of the comments were beautiful and loving until the SDA churc was mentioned. I am sure you have never attended a SDA church, so why put it down if you truly don’t know what my church stands for.
Dman, you sound quite bitter. The initial post in this thread was of someone who has been switching between D and ND churches, in search of biblical truth, and came to an honest conclusion that such a church is currently rare. Someone put forward the SDA church, claiming that they are who ‘study and believe in all of the King James Bible’. I gave a quote from the same bible to illustrate the untruthfulness of that statement. There are more other untruthful claims made by the institution, for instance, that they are the ‘only true church’ or the ‘remnant church’. Yet, the church itself was not founded on truth. Setting a date for the return of Christ (22 Oct 1844), and when the day came and passed, claiming that Christ was switching apartments in heaven, what the church calls ‘Investigative Judgement’ in its 27 or 28 or 29 Fundamental Beliefs – the number keeps changing – , is not just unbiblical, but also anti-biblical; sadly, the foundational doctrine upon which this church was started. It is written, ‘Christ having come as a high priest of the coming good things, through His own blood, entered in once for all into the holiest of places, having obtained eternal redemption, and when he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God, till His enemies are made the footstool of His feet.’ God loved the world, such that He sent His son, anyone who would believe, would not perish, instead, would attain life with no end. Blessings.
After asking for forgiveness we are to Go and sin no morr
The Seventh Day Church Is A Cult That was started by A Woman
May I pose a question. What is a non-denominational church??? You have to believe something. When you don’t have an affiliation what do you cling to as your doctrine. Most of them say they have a set doctrine which in turn makes them denominational they just want to avoid the nametag. If you don’t have a set doctrine then the church is not sound doctrine. I would never attend a non-denominational church because I want to know what the church believes when I go there. When I attend a Baptist church, I know what they believe and what to expect when I get there. As for the fighting and politics, that is in every church. If you put a group of people in a building, conflict is going to arise. I think most people run to non-denominational churches because normally the commitment level is a lot lower than a denominational church. EVERY non-denominational church in our town offers only one service, which is very shallow at that. When they meet once a week, you just watch the show on stage, go home and live like the world, and go back and do it all over again the next week. I may sound cynical but it bothers me that the SBC Convention is shifting away from their heritage as Baptists. I am not ashamed of our name. I like it when it was called “The BAPTIST bookstore” instead of “Lifeway.” I like churches to be labeled as Baptist because we have nothing to be ashamed of. The man who baptized Jesus was named John the “Baptist” not John the “I have no clue what I believe”
A non-denominational church is one that has no hierarchy outside of the individual congregation, thus full congregational autonomy. The churches of Christ started out as non-denominational but over decades (and with some publication editors’ outsized influence) all started to act/seem very similar. Now, many people now believe them to be a denomination though there is less similarity between congregations.
That being said, every congregation is different. Baptists spread the spectrum from liberal (women ministers) to hard-line conservative where alcohol is still forbidden. Some churches of Christ use instruments and have women in the pulpit and others say that those who do will go to hell. Episcopal churches range from very liberal to Gospel-focused, non-political.
I think the categorization of a non-denominational church is less about whether there is a clear doctrinal statement and more about how a church chooses to cooperate and relate to other churches. Some non-denominational churches are very clear in what their doctrinal positions are but they choose not to cooperate through an official denominational network.
My church is non-denominational…but we are part of a Bible fellowship of 60+ churches dating back for 150 years… There is a very clear doctrinal statement, but from my personal experience, the church must focus on the Lord Jesus Christ, and be filled with His love as the most important part of their doctrine…
In my humble opinion, any church with doctrine that is not in alignment with the Bible, has the possibility of pleasing man, and not God…
Here is a link to check out,
http://www.newbeginningsbfc.org/our-denomination/
Blessings in Christ, bruce
Thank you for clearing that up so I did not have to.
You are so correct. If your doctrine is not aligned with the gospel in the bible then it’s not a true church. I’m COGIC and we are looked down upon as a denomination but we are a bible teaching and preaching the gospel church. Of course we are human and mistakes are made but forgiveness is asked and is forgiven.
You are right well sai
I am a member of the churches of Christ who really enjoys this blog and though many of our congregations are in complete unity in matters of doctrine that is not the result of becoming a denomination but following the same standard (i.e. the Bible). This can be said because the churches of Christ have no earthly headquarters, not governing body outside the local congregation, and do not answer to other congregations. We have commonality with other congregations because we arrive at the same Biblical conclusions.
Amen!!
I must ask, do you worship the Christ of the Bible or the creed of the “Baptist Faith and Message”? All denom churches where I have worshipped and served spent more time reiterating why they were different and therefore better than the church down the street. People are sick of having their laundry list of sins pointed out at the door. They want to be loved, and know that God cars and Jeuss is their hope. Our church teaches that Salvation isn’t chea. It cost Jesus everything and it requires our surrender to His Lordship. Wr also have a vibrant discipleship program reaulting in ⅓ of the congregation serving on the ministry team. As to missions, our one church gave over $6.1 M to missions, and conducted 1200 local outreach events and over 200 national and Intl mission projects last yr alone. Cling to the cronyism of Denominationalism. I will cling to the risen living conquering freeing empowering Christ of the Bible.
Perhaps you should learn more of the denominations you criticize before you post such sanctimonious comments.
Ken,
I am in total agreement with you. No one should be making disparaging remarks on any sect without investigating and researching before forming an opinion. That doesn’t mean you receive your information from someone who has left their church and are disgruntled I was born and raised as a Roman Catholic. I have attended Catholic schools even through college. I minored in theology, not just Catholicism or Christianity. I’ve have been in a Bible study group since I was 20, I’m 53 now. People assume that because you’re a part of a denominational church that your faith isn’t Bible based. Fr. Paul during his Homily this weekend told us that BIBLE is an acronym and it stands for Basic Information Before Leaving Earth. Fundamentally, that is what the Bible does for us, denmo or not. Catholics are also evangelical, in the respect that we want people to know the word of God and Jesus Christ has died for our sins. We don’t try to “recruit” people for Catholicism. We do have a program called RCIA that welcomes anyone to learn about the Catholic faith. If you join one, you are NOT required to be baptized in the church if you decide Catholicism is not the path you want to take for your spirituality. You can leave at any time without pressure to stay. I’ve been a sponsor in that program for a long time and sometimes people will be a part of this community for a couple of years before they make a decision one way or another. When someone decides that being Catholic is not for them, we say God Bless and we hope you will find your path to God. I’m not saying that the Catholic Church doesn’t have any problems, I’m not naive. But I doubt that any church non or denom, doesn’t have problems amongst their congregations. There is no clear cut answer to this debate. As long as you find God and a sense of peace, that’s all that should matter.
God Bless!
Dear Donna, thank you for stating exactly what I want to say. I’m a Catholic too and very content and thankful to be one. I firmly believe in God, Jesus and the Virgin Mary, I’m a sinner, who asks for forgiveness on my own and then through confession; I believe in the Bible and think there is another life for us close to God; I believe in Jesus coming to earth to died in the cross for our sins but I also believe we should be good Christians and ask for forgiveness every time we sin. By repenting, we will reach the eternal glory.
I attend a non-denominational church. And personally speaking there is no lower level of commitment than any other church that I have ever been to. If anything there are stronger Christians who attend my church than most places I have been. People who seek truth and Gods will in all walks of their lives. That being said I went to a non denominational church because of two reasons.
One that in many other denominations the church adds rules to the bible. More guidelines, and as we can see throughout history that is exactly what the Pharisees did. Our rules should be set in the bible and the bible alone how God has called us to live through the scripture. Not any sort of extra rules. And for doctrine we follow the bible. That’s it. People might have different views, but that is when we seek “wise council” if you will. Discuss is and seek the truth!
The second reason was because in 1 Corinthians Paul writes about not claiming to be of Paul or apollos or Cephas or even Christ. What we shall claim is that we are Christian. We believe in Christ, but the divisions in the church and claiming to be from different lines though essentially are the same, they create division. I’m not saying that they have to, but to a nob-believer they could create a stumbling block. In essence though we all worship the same God. And every believe is of the body of Christ. The body of Christ is not in a building, but includes every person who is a believer in Christ.
I’ve been to more than one non-denominational church. Two of them were Brooklyn Tabernacle, and The Church of the Highlands. Frankly, I’ve never been around folks who knew what they believed as much as the members of those two churches.
Conversely, I’ve yet to meet a Baptist church member who could tell me why you have to be baptized to join a Baptist church. And that includes deacons assembled, Sunday School teachers assembled, and even on one occasion, a seminary professor.
And your observation about the level of commitment surely does not apply in Alabama. In the 6 big population centers in the state, attendance among Baptists runs 33.28% of membership (but remember attendance includes visitors, infants, etc), whereas it’s 53.97% among other reporting denominations.
Perhaps the real reason people are going to non-denominational churches is that they’re the ones who are getting the job done today, as contrasted with denominations whose churches don’t teach the people what they believe.
I am a pastor of a non-denominational Baptist church in the Northeast. I say that I am Christian with a capital “C” and a baptist with a little “b”. I will die for the truth of God’s Word. The name Baptist is not in the Bible. I like it, but I will not die for it. Being part of a denomination or not is not about commitment or spirituality, it is about governance.
Names are about meaning. I believe the Baptist name has become so broad in meaning that it is almost meaningless. I wish it wasn’t so, but I am describing the reality, not my desires.
Just to clear up your question about baptism, we believe that you need to be baptized to join a church because church membership is a group of people with similar beliefs promising to follow and obey Christ together. Baptism is a public statement to others that you are following Christ. If you are not willing to obey Christ (baptism), then you are not ready to promise to follow Christ with others (membership).
If I may add something here the name John the Baptist does not mean that he was a baptist. The word baptist means baptizer he was John the baptizer. He baptized people into repentance
After asking for forgiveness we are to Go and sin no morr
When you claim that people know what “Baptists” believe just by the name, what brand of Baptist are your referring to? The Baptist World Alliance lists 211 different Baptist denominations and that doesn’t even include Southern Baptists or the other unaffiliated splinter groups that pop up regularly.
I’m bothered by people who have more loyalty to their denomination than their Savior. I have no problem with denominations, I just choose not to be part of one. It is NOT biblically mandated nor do I find it particularly beneficial.
John the Baptist was known for his actions, not his denominational ties (he was considered a trouble-maker by the Jewish religious majority). People knew what he believed because he told them, not because he wore a t-shirt, hung out with a crowd, or had a nice logo on a sign.
You make a valid point. Non-denominational churches often end up becoming mini-denominations in and of themselves.
Good points/questions. Most non-denominational churches follow the beliefs of the pastor and follow him without question. In other words, it is a pastor dominated church.
I don’t believe so.. I just recently came back to the faith after a long time of self searching and trying to figure out what I truly believe. I found this non-denominational church, Grassroots in Rockford, IL (grassrootsrockford.com) and they are the most genuine believers I have ever met. I can tell the Lord is with them. There’s a genuine warmth of Christ’s love that radiates in them.. and they’re actively involved with the local community. They challenge each other in Christ and they don’t hang their lives on the words of the Pastor. The Pastor gives a message, but challenges us to look at the same scriptures to find the truth for ourselves. He even repeatedly says not to just take his word for it.
I’ve never met a more open and humble pastor than Pastor Dan Hinz. I’m really glad I found this church because I was a part of AoG since birth and I loved it so much, but there was a time in my church life where I was 18 years old, a youth leader, and there was this cute male youth leader that caught my eye (and obliviously I caught his) We dated and ended up, due to hormones and the struggle of abstinence, giving in and doing things we shouldn’t have. He wanted to just throw it under the rug, but I couldn’t live with myself. (especially when the youth pastor later asked me if I could handle the middle sschool girls’ lesson on purity)
I confronted him privately and told him that I couldn’t keep this a secret any longer and that I had to tell the youth pastor. My conscience was weighing heavily on me. It got so bad I felt sick and almost threw up. He broke up with me over it and told me he’d deny it if they asked him. I gathered my courage and told my youth pastor all that had gone on, and I ended up also stepping down as a leader because I couldn’t do it. If I’m struggling to control myself, I’m not a suitable leader.. my youth pastor was more mad at the fact I took responsibility and decided to step down.. and even more so mad when he denied it, she then thought I was lying because I just wanted to shirk my duties… It left me sick and broken inside hearing this.
It didnt take long before rumors had spread and the girls who once looked up to me as their big sister now looked at me with utter disgust and hatred.. D:
Some time had passed since then and I had gotten super sick and nearly died.. and my mom kept saying that the fact I wasn’t getting better was because i didn’t have enough faith.. :/ not knowing it was because I was extremely malnourished due to a nasty stomach virus that left me unable to eat for a week and I became paranoid of eating because I felt that i’d just puke it up.. it ended up getting so bad that I didn’t eat for 2 months and barely drank any water. I wanted to die. I didn’t feel loved and the church couldn’t have given two craps about me.. and they were barking at me that God was punishing me for not attending this class i signed up for.. (it was a believers class that focused on teachings by joel olsteen… *shudders*) There was just so much hostility..
I moved out of state to IL (from MI), met my husband of 3 years now, and we both attended an AoG church out here and it was great at first, then it slowly started getting more and more about how many people we could get in the doors and making them feel comfortable (church became more of a entertainment than a challenging message). But the real blow was when we had a period of transition and going through a tough time financially.. the church revolked our membership because we couldnt always make tithe regularly… and our bible study group disowned us.. That was the last straw for us.. and our hearts were bitter and hardened for 3 years after that..
Then one day the card that read “For those who have given up on church, but not on God.” fell out of our sunday paper and we both looked at it and smiled. It was for Grassroots. And let me tell you, I love this church. Its free of all the religious nonsense some demoninational churches can have and its solely about the bible, loving God and loving your neighbor as your self. Sermons are challenging and not PC. I love it so much and I’m thankful every day God brought this body of believers to my attention. 😀
Amen! If I were asked what I would be if not a Southern Baptist, I would tell them I would be ashamed. That is bases on what I believe.
If I may add something here the name John the Baptist does not mean that he was a baptist. The word baptist means baptizer he was John the baptizer. He baptized people into repentance
Well said, Mike!! I was raised with very strict beliefs thru the Assemblies of God. I’m 51 years old and have no intentions or desire to change what I feel is right for me. I’ve watched as our churchs have relaxed their morals concerning God, teach instead of preach & it scares me. I want my children and grandchildren to know, although God forgives sin, God expects us to live by certain rules; The Ten Commandments. If you understand the commandments & abide by these, you will certainly inherit the Kingdom of God.
I do not think a Christian, one that knows right from wrong, should knowingly do things that is not Godly & expect to enter heaven. My 26 year old son, is non-denominational & doesn’t seem to have a clue where he stands in his beliefs. It concerns me, as he appears to constantly be in conflict with his Christianity. It’s so simple, live righteous, love the Lord & obey his commandments…simple!! I don’t know about these churches nowadays but, it appears as if people think they can make their own rules to suit their lifestyle & think, if they read the BIBLE & attend church, boom, “heavenbound I am”!!
You didn’t mention anything about Jesus anywhere. The only key to heaven. I came from a very conservative denominational church. Their focus was a lot more on their rules and regulations then Jesus Christ. There was a lot of fighting and conflict about rules? Nobody was concerned about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
It is very sad when satan has the victory like that.
Just so I’m clear I am not in favor of the denominational churches.
Thanks for this post!
I have been a member of a denominational church (SBC) for 36 years. God has blessed me do be able to serve in a variety of capacities including pastor, missionary and consultant. I have benefited from the cooperative efforts and cooperative giving. The cost of myntheological education was significantly reduced because of SBC churches supporting the work of Bible colleges and seminaries. I have been blessed by being a part of a denomination.
Having said all that, I agree with most of what your survey reports. While we some significant changes (like the selling of facilities to reduce costs and put more resources back on the mission field), there is still way too much bureaucracy, too much multiplication of services. Many of the training models on a local level are antiquated. If you suggest it is time to change, you are labeled a trouble-maker or a radical. We are told to work within the system to bring about change slowly. We are then left with the choice of using our time to fight institutional loyalists or use our time to reach our communities for Christ. Easy choice for most.
It is not that non-denominational churches do not cooperate or need resources, but they get them from smaller networks.
So, while many may not leave their denomination, they become disengaged. They just stop attending. There is change taking place in the SBC, but the pace of change is so slow that it is not keeping up with the pace of those leaving and becoming disengaged.
I am not a prophet, but I believe in 15-20 years, the number of non-denominational churches will surpass the number of SBC churches.
Some also see denominational churches as being old with entrenched leadership. Sadly, the entrenched leadership often gets promoted to denominational leadership after running the church poorly, thus continuing the problem. This is like social promotion of a child who can’t read. Sometimes the denominational “home office” can/has run off people with their strange stances (hard right or hard left) when the church had no control over the stance. I think that if enough churches banded together, they could affect change in the headquarters. Non-denominational churches are generally younger/newer and have less entrenched leadership and might even have terms for leadership instead of appointments for life.
Now, there are denominational churches that are growing rapidly. Some of them do not go along with the denominational headquarters’ hard-right or hard-left position. Some of them never mention their denomination and are apolitical. They focus on the gospel every Sunday.
+ 1 for Mike”s comment
My wife and I did the opposite. We left the non-denominational churches and joined the United Methodist Church. We have been at this particular church 18 years. The church we belong to is wonderful. It was the best move we ever did.
I think the youth and young adults (my generation) don’t see the point or merit in affiliation and accountability that denominations provide. From what I’ve seen, we’re laissez faire church goers.
The other Mike above makes a good point: What is a nondenominational church? I’d ask a similar question: Should we group these churches as if they were a single denomination or movement, which is what we’re doing by grouping them as nondenominational churches?
I would answer “No,” although I know it’s easier to talk about them by doing so. But each of these churches, by not affiliating with an existing denomination, has become a denomination unto itself. A conservative count puts the number of U.S. Christian denominations at 217. Including each “nondenominational church” raises that to 35,217.
The Dictionary of Christianity in America (1990) gave the number of denominations worldwide at more than 22,000 (although that includes national denominations that are part of worldwide federations). So it could be said that there are more than 57,000 Protestant denominations in the world, and that doesn’t include nondenominational churches in countries outside the U.S.
The non-denominational churches that I know of are very good at teaching members what they believe. No presuppositions exist as to their beliefs so they make them very clear to members and guests alike. However, many baptist churches give little to no attention toward teaching the beliefs of the church to the members. Their is an assumption that everyone knows what we believe because we use the name baptist. This is not always the case. baptist church polity, theology and ministries vary as wider than one can imagine. Every church needs to have some method of teaching, every attender, the basic beliefs to which she holds. The dynamics of theology, systems and ministries within a given church, needs to be explained; not taken as a given simply because said church has employed the name baptist.
I can tell you why I prefer to stay in Southern Baptist life, although I grew up in what was a “non-denominational” (Bible) church.
First, as a pastor I like having an association and state leaders to call for resources, advice, and help. The people at these various levels are passionate people who really want churches to reach their communities. Most of my interactions with people at these levels have been very positive (though, as is to be expected, not 100% positive).
Second, I like having a doctrine we can point to but is not dictated to us from above. Churches are free to preach what they will, but there is a structure of doctrine that is in place for people to already have a reference point when they join the church.
Third, and most importantly, I like the cooperative program. The structure for missions and disaster relief missions are in place already so that people know their designated gifts are being used efficiently in the field, that missionaries are being trained and sent, and that everybody has a part in it.
Non-denominational churches can be great, and I’d choose a non-denominational church over most other denominations, but these are the positives of our particular denomination as I see them.
Steve, good point on the doctrine, but, unfortunately, not every SBC church upholds the same doctrine in practice. So, just out of curiosity, what’s the doctrinal standard for the SBC and how are the churches held accountable to it?
The doctrinal standard is the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message. The SBC has the right to withdraw membership from churches that teach in contradiction to it.
The Baptist Faith & Message is the standard, although some churches prefer the 1963 to the 2000 version. Baptists are generally “non-creedal,” so the accountability thing has been a thorny issue in denominational politics.
Baptists believe in the autonomy of the local church, so the “higher” organizations are for cooperation and support rather than governing, except for those organizations that come from the cooperative efforts (like missions and seminaries).
As Ken said, the convention at different levels can (and have) withdrawn membership for churches who are teaching things that grossly violate the BF&M, but there is a lot of freedom.
The 2000 Baptist Faith and Message has been criticized as “too narrow”. In fact, it is quite broad in comparison with Baptist confessional statements of the past. It only has eighteen article. Past Baptist confessions has as many as forty or fifty. We often hear it said that Baptists don’t believe in creeds, but according to the writings of our Baptist forebears, that’s not strictly true.
I have gone to a certain denomination most of my life but they changed their name so no one would know that they belonged to a certain denomination.
I have the experience of both. Was born and raised SBC late 50’s – 60’s
Learned the basics of faith but saw way too much fighting and too much adherence to denomination tradition not backed up in scripture. Too many Pharisee’s.
Got married, we were members and served in four different non denominational churches, each grew like wildfire briefly then disintegrated due to lack of fiscal accountability and spiritual discipline.
Today I serve as a Deacon in a wonderful SBC church.
We are not perfect, no congregation is this side of heaven. In conclusion I do agree the name can be a turn off and understand why many new start ups leave it out.
I am speaking in LifeWay chapel this morning and I have several appointments throughout the day. I plan to rejoin the discussion later this evening.
My husband and I were both born and bred in our denomination. My husband’s father held leadership roles in our denomination. I love church as a whole, and I have always been proud of our denomination, specifically. I never imagined a day would think of leaving it. I assumed our children would follow in our footsteps. However, we have reached a place where denomination is no longer the primary thing we look for in a church. Aside from doctrine, we look at the church’s vision, leaders and people. We still attend a church in our denomination and aren’t looking to leave. But attending that church- and the one before we moved to IL- both of which are not prototypical of church’s in our denomination has led us to reevaluate things. On a local and state level the denomination tends not to support us, presumably because we are different and don’t conform to traditional molds. Yet our church is one of the largest givers in the area. Aside from these personal observations, my husband and I are often frustrated by our denomination on a national level. It seems we focus on the minor rather than the major. We definitely seem to be known for what we are against as opposed to love. We appear angry. This is frustrating when it comes to reaching people who ask what type of church we attend. Walls immediately go up. My son is now in seminary- not a denominational one. He may or may not choose to become a pastor within our denomination. At first I was heartbroken. My husband and I stay in part- for now- because we hope to change things from within. It saddens me that so many young leaders, like my son, are leaving or may leave the convention. How do we grow, hear new voices, remain strong and change where needed when so many are leaving? This is a problem. Denomination aside, any organization experiencing such a mass exodus of good people must ask themselves why. They must be willing to consider they might be a part of the problem. Again, I grew up proud and loving our denomination. I went so far as to think we were the best. Right even. I have learned the church is Christ’s not ours. We are fallible. He is not. My loyalty must align with him rather than a denomination. That not so subtle shift in my heart has made me, I suppose, less loyal and open to what other church’s are doing. I know this was long. Thanks for listening and initiating the conversation.
Thom,
It might be instructive to parse out what is meant by too liberal. What I’m hearing in the United Methodist Church from disaffected members is that the church becomes too cause focused and not Jesus focused. It’s the misinterpretation of what John Wesley meant by Social Holiness. This focus can become destructive when members who joined because of the last pastor and now have a new pastor sent to them who is involved in or supports members involved in a justice ministry that’s currently a polarizing social issue, and it can be any one of them. The church becomes divided like the public is divided by that issue. The church has becomes seen as liberal or conservative depending on who stays and who leaves. On top of that, new people don’t come because the church is for or against a social issue depending on who left or stayed. Jesus tells us to do mercy and love justice, but first love people and not divide the community of the faithful.
Steve
Thom,
All your reasons are pretty accurate from my experience. I’d add a couple nuances.
Fewer church attenders today know enough doctrine to be able to articulate denominational differences. They don’t know Calvin, Zinzendorf, anabaptists, Zwingli or Wesley, so they don’t know their denominational off-shoots, or how it affects church polity, doctrine, practice, etc. Denoms have less value in attracting church goers.
As well, those who are not churched only know church “brands” most often based on bad experiences. They didn’t like a neighbor who was “Baptist” so they associate negative feelings with all baptists of all stripes from Free Will to SBC, National Baptists to Adventist Baptists. If our culture and audience are unable to differentiate, the local church feels a pull to disassociate.
All of this has given rise to church networks across denominational ties and beyond that SERVE the local church in their mission like Acts29, ARC, New Thing, and the WillowCreek association. These networks provide value to churches, allow for cooperative efforts on some fronts, and don’t tie them into “brands” that people object to or muddle with local autonomy….nor tell them they don’t own their local property.
Denominations will continue to decline until the denominational leaders begin to focus their efforts and services on making local churches more effective at building the Kingdom of Christ. That this is not now their main focus means we have gone far from the roots of the reformation.
Is there less loyalty to any church or pastor in a modern church? With neighborhood small groups and no denomination the number of lines of connectedness in our faith relationships falls.
I think that in this trend our younger generation is losing a lot of the joy of a church affiliation. For me these affiliations yield more connectedness, more relationships, and more joy in my walk of faith.
Faith is a relationship, and I think having lots of connectedness yields a more joyful faith journey and then a more fervent and winsome faith.
Ironically, even “non-denominational” IS a denomination since it denominated (split) from the original Christian Catholic (universal) Church that Christ founded.
Non-denominational churches are split from “denominations” not THE church of Jesus. Denominations are just one part of the church. Thankfully, we all gain entrance into the universal, catholic church by the work of the Holy Spirit (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 12:13).
Denominations range from a structure like the United States (central government able to overrule local governments) to a structure like the United Nations (local governments able to overrule central non-binding government). If you are in a denominational church, you probably know where you fit on this continuum.
I have been through pastor searches in two churches at opposite ends of this continuum. The first was a bitter fight between various groups of the members trying to promote their favorite candidate brought forth from the search committee. The second was in a church where the head elder stood up in the morning worship service and announced that the elders had been elected to find and select the next pastor and that the congregation would have no part in the selection process.
In both cases, the process was within the rules governing the church. I think that most people see denominations as they view the latter church I described. The former church seems to them to be less denominational (and possibly non-denominational). The truth, however, is that both churches are in evangelical denominations.
Non-denominational churches are seen as rising about being told what to do by a higher human authority. But….
Great post. Thanks Tom for all of your hard work.
I was wondering if there is a correlation of moving away from denominations and generally being dissatisfied with institutions with areas that eventually become “church less” – for example Quebec City is kind of an area that had huge institutional church involvement throughout their history, but since has kind of resisted institutions and now there aren’t many churches up there. I wonder if this will be an eventual trend in the USA???? I guess what I am asking is this just the first step in a slow pattern of moving away from the church all together, or is this a healthy change? Just curious about your thoughts. I hope I’m making sense.
I wonder what would happen if you controlled for the age of the congregation – not the average age of the participants, but the age of that particular institutional manifestation of “church”. Churches, like any other human institution, tend to have lifespans. I suspect that if you put this control in your data, you’d find that what is really happening is that there are far more non-denominational startups than denominational churches, and that more of those churches are at an early state in their overall lifespan. Congregations are no less mortal than the people in them – they tend to grow, become established, and eventually decline. I suspect that simple lifespan issue plays a greater role in the phenomenon you’re observing than any of the other factors you’ve cited.
My problem with conservative/evangelical denomination is that social justice issues are not addressed, not only not addressed, but given an amen and Jesus is an American.
Define “social justice issues”. Southern Baptists have been very vocal against the killing of the unborn, but people criticize that as “political”. You can’t have it both ways.
Last night I preached a message entitled “WDJD (What DID Jesus do?)”. In it, I brought up the problem with asked what Jesus WOULD do. That question leads to speculation and co-opting the message of Christ into a variety of areas that Jesus did not focus on…including “social justice”.
Jesus healed, taught, confronted the sin in people’s lives, and ultimately, sacrificed Himself for the sins of all. That’s the message that should be the focus of the church. Anything else is a distraction.
What a great discussion! Thanks for getting it started.
Two deadly sins of this culture. Politics and accountability. If a denomination emphasize these too heavily folks head for the hills.
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We began attending nondenominational churches because we felt that there were no denominations that believed exactly what we believed and we found most denominations to be more loyal to their denominations traditions than anything else. I have so many friends who affiliate with a certain denomination out of tradition but do not actually believe in the doctrine of that denomination. What is the point then? For instance, if you believe in abortion, gay marriage, birth control, and divorce, how can you claim to be Catholic? For us, I was raised Episcopal and I do truly believe in most Episcopal doctrine with the exception of baptizing babies rather than baptizing as adults. I wanted to be baptized as an adult due to my choosing, but the Episocpal church saw my baptism as a baby as sufficient and no reason to baptize me as an adult.
Tom,
The Episcopal Church believes you only need to be baptized once, even if done as an infant. According to it’s catechism, “baptism is union with Christ in his death and resurrection, birth into God’s family the Church, forgiveness of sins and new life in the Holy Spirit.” Infants are baptized so that can receive redemption by God and become full members of the body of Christ. On the child’s behalf, parents, sponsors, and the congregation make promises during the baptism ceremony to bring the child up in the faith. Confirmation, which happens at an age of understanding and consent, is the opportunity given to a baptized person to confirm the Baptismal Vows made on their behalf as an infant. There’s lots of misunderstanding surrounding infant/child baptisms out there by Christians whose own tradition don’t do them.
Again who still drives their parents Chevy? Generation to generation there is a shift from what their parents and grandparents practiced. In the past it meant something to belong to a certain denomination it brought your family identity, you were committed to a global mission program. Over the years the counter culture of the 60′ was to move away from your families traditions and establish your own roots. Non-denomination is as much about not having authority as it’s ability to make decisions to move quicker with the next generations style desire. Culturally we are seeing a rise in Angelican beliefs because of their five fold mission, that puts an emphasis on social justice and liturgy that puts structure to worship.
The future of non denominations and denominations is bleak, 30,000 denominations don’t have the funds to keep going they will cease or merge. The current generation is passionate about one church and no denominations and they will not fund the denomination. In 10 years the discussion will be where are the denominations.
This very discussion was our topic in college ministry today, the leaders of the future have determined theend.
A “non denominational” church is simply a denomination with one church in it. There is all the same stuff as with a larger denomination, it is just smaller and lacking the fellowship and accountability of larger denominations.
I concur. People can opine about whether denominations are scriptural or not, but they are an inescapable reality in this world, and will be until Christ returns.
>A “non denominational” church is simply a denomination with one church in it.
That depends upon how “denomination” is defined.
Is a congregation that gets described as “No kitchen in the church building, no social get togethers of church members, one cup is used for communion, no paid preachers, no sunday school classes, and wzsa founded circa 1850 by an individual who was baptized Alexander Campbell and has neither formally, nor informally, affiliated with any other congregation”, a church that is part of a denomination?
Individuals of that specific congregation do not consider themselves to be part of a denomination. Individuals outside of that specific congregation, but are considered to be “of sound doctrine”, do not consider that congregation to be part of a denomination.
Individuals that are neither within that congregation, nor within that group that is considered to be “of sound”, do consider it to be a denomination, to wit: _church of Christ (Mutual Edification)(Non-Institutional)(One Cup)(No Kitchen)(No Sunday School)_.
I might have left out a couple of either identifiers, so that it is not confused with, say, _church of Christ (Mutual Edification)(Non-Institutional)(One Cup)(No Kitchen)(No Sunday School) (Upper Room)_, which is obviously a congregation that is not sound.
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I’m using Restoration Movement Christianity, as an example.
The virtue of the Restoration Movement, is that the individual congregations are willing to break with others, and loudly proclaim why they are doing so. The same splits can be found in denominations, but it takes a lot more digging, over far more corpse, to find the Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, or Lutheran congregations that don’t believe that the preacher should be paid, or the congregation should only meet in an Upper Room, or that communion should only be celebrated once per year, or that the congregation should share one cup, or that kitchens in a church building are a violation of God’s Law, etc.
To borrow a phrase from John Wayne, you’re going the long way around the barn. What exactly is your point?
So often now the larger non-denominational churches are becoming mini-denominations. Such as the Church of the Highlands. In fact, the mother church is very controlling of the member-churches, Satellite campuses as they call them. Understand I am not saying they are wrong, them seem to be doing a great job in getting people there, but so are many of our larger SBC churches who have multi-campuses. I have seem even smaller churches looking at having satellite site to help reach more people in the rural areas who cannot afford to pay a fulltime pastor, mainly because there are not enough people in the community. Just because one is a denominational church does not mean their are not spiritual. We have seen even non-denominational church teach un-biblical doctrine and have seen leaders who have fallen form some of those large churches. We need to work together to reach the lost, and each of us need to find the church body we can best serve Christ as being part of that body. It saddens me to see so many try to make themselves look better but cutting others down. There are more than enough people who do not know Christ that can fill all of the churches we have. Let’s focus on helping them find the one where the can worship, serve, grow and share the gospel.
I would add another reason: non-denominational churches are closer to their founding and therefore more mission-oriented. Most are still quite young, so it will be interesting to see if aging affects these institutions in the way it has affected denominations.
Some years ago I was in a ministerial alliance meeting with some pastors of other denominations. The president of the alliance was a Methodist and a dear friend of mine, and we picked at each other quite a bit. One day during a meeting, he attempted to compliment Southern Baptists on their disaster relief efforts. I was sitting next to a Southern Baptist pastor. My Methodist friend said, “Southern Baptists are probably the best…”, and then he paused. I looked at the other Southern Baptist pastor and said, “Yeah, I’ve always thought so. Haven’t you?” Of course, my Methodist friend just groaned (he knew he had walked right into that one).
All kidding aside, I’m at least a fifth-generation Southern Baptist, and I’ll list the following reasons for remaining one:
1. Our missions agencies are some of the finest in the world.
2. Our seminaries offer quality theological education that honors the Bible as God’s inerrant Word.
3. Our disaster relief efforts are surpassed only by the Red Cross and the Salvation Army.
4. Southern Baptists maintain a firm stand on the sanctity of human life and biblical marriage, while other denominations are caving to cultural pressures.
5. Southern Baptists still believe Jesus is the only way to God.
6. When liberals infiltrated our denomination and tried to steer us away from God’s Word, Southern Baptists refused to let it happen.
These comments have been very interesting. I have affiliations with both southern Baptists and non-denominational congregations. The biggest difference? How churches are run (worship styles, church boards, etc.). The biggest similarities? They teach Jesus as the only way to heaven and the Bible as the word of God & factual truth. I am a huge proponent of churches working together to bring more folks into heaven. While I think it is interesting to note the differences and why people choose to go to certain denominations, it is more important to focus on how we all can work together.
I think the real discussion here should be, Is denominationalism scriptural?
As a Christian believer (and not a theologian), I love all people and especially fellow believers. When an issue such as this come to the forefront my “go to” source is always scripture.
Let’s start simple, Merriam-Webster defines denominationalism as emphasizing denominational differences to the point of being narrowly exclusive : sectarianism. So, if we think about it, denominationalism occurs when believers divide and segregate themselves on the basis of differences, affiliations, and/or doctrines.
Now let’s look at a few New Testament scriptures. Twice in John 17, Jesus is praying, first for his disciples (vv. 6-19) and then believers, in general (vv. 20-26). In v. 11 Jesus prays, “I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one (emphasis added). Then, also in John 17, as Jesus is praying for all believers (vv. 20-26), Jesus prays, “I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity (vv. 22-23a).” Paul made the same point to the church in Corinth: “Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment” (1 Corinthians 1:10).
So, if I understand Jesus and Paul correctly, denominations are not scriptural.
Please understand, I have nothing against any true believer or where he/she chooses to worship and I have no biases or prejudices against how an individual worships, as long as they worship the One and True God.
I just believe that God does not want denominations to exist, based on scripture.
I have been a Missionary Baptist with the SBC now for 43 years, preaching-pastor for 42 of those years. I know the poplar fad now is drop the words Missionary & Baptist, (at least in Kentucky) I was pastor of 3 churches for 36 years & now have been a Director of Missions for 9 years. I never have been, neither will I ever be ashamed to be called a Baptist! I do not like seeker-friendly churches, just preaching the gospel of Jesus & they will come and respond! I really enjoy Dr. Rainer’s blogs & email them to all our pastors. We have 42 churches & 1 Hispanic mission.
I have good, sincere friends working in denominational churches! I personally have sat in many types of meetings with denominational leaders. The systems are crumbling and as a co founder of YOUTH CHURCH INTERNATIONAL we have been honored to see young people/young adults arise all over the world to be the church now! Jesus, unity, and a love for our lost neighbors is enough! “Church” doesn’t have to be fighting over minor doctrinal points, grappling for power/control, and worrying about guaranteed salaries, etc. Church can be a safe, restful experience, full of meaning and rewards! Thanks for the article and sharing these facts about people leaving the institutional church. It doesn’t surprise me.
In other words, you’re starting another denomination.
I have attended a denominational church for most of my entire life and have pastored in that denomination for 31 years. Obviously, that would be my choice of attendance.
However, as I have read through most of these comments, I come away with a couple of predominate thoughts:
1. There seems to be a mutual lack of respect for the other’s “church of choice,” with neither side seeming to trust or appreciate the value of the other.
2. When we all stand before our Lord to give our account, I don’t think He will have a list of “acceptable” denominations or non-denominations to see if we qualify. Isn’t the true measurement of our effectiveness the number of souls that are being transformed into His image and not that of our particular brand?
It would seem to me that as we each pursue our callings that we could learn to appreciate and value each other’s gifts in order for His church to be built up rather than our own!
“Beloved, let us live one another….”
Dr. Rainer. Guidestone often reminds the SBC that it is not a denomination. Are they right? If not, why is an autonomous church that affiliates with Willow Creek, A29, or ARC not considered denominational churches?
Aaron: I am not familiar with GuideStone’s definition. Feel free to post a link where they say that. Thanks.
I’ve been in ministry for nearly 30 years, both in denominational and non-denominational. I pastored a non-denominational for 13 years, and have worked with three denominations, currently serving as pastor of a denominational church.
There are advantages a denomination; the synergy and economy of scale of a large organization, the fellowship and networking opportunities, the support of a larger group. But there are also disadvantages- administrative costs, diseconomy of scale, unwillingness to move, change, cultural relevancy challenges. These are the things I see as a pastor.
The organization I’m currently affiliated with is firmly rooted somewhere in the early fifties, and rarely communicates with us about anything but fund raising for the denomination or to tell us that some dear old saint, well known among the hierarchy, went to be with the Lord. I see almost no focus on Christ and growing the Kingdom in their meetings and publications; instead, they have become an inward focused group, much like an inward focused church.
We receive no support from the national denomination, and, as such, while I have no inclination to lead this church away from its roots, I have no real incentive to draw them closer either.
I am a Free Will Baptist minister, and something becoming very prominent in our denomination is dropping ‘Free Will Baptist Church’ from the name in favor of the more inclusive ‘Community Church’. It seems to me that people just have a negative connotation of denominations. I, however, think it dangerous to do away with denominational names. Obviously, there is not one denomination alone that is the way to heaven-Jesus is the only way- but it is important to know where churches stand, and what doctrines they teach. Denominations also make it much easier to support overseas missionaries, and help to fulfill the Great Commission!
It saddens me that people don’t want to affiliate with particular denominations, but I seem to be in the minority these days.
Question: “What is a non-denominational church? What do non-denominational churches believe?”
“Answer: This question really has several answers, and they can be either simple or complex. The simplest answer is that a non-denominational church is any church which is not part of a larger denomination. A denomination is a church organization that exercises some sort of authority over the local churches that comprise it.”
I have been a Pastor in the Southern Baptist Convention for 38 years and I have never considered the SBC to be a ‘denomination’. The churches I have belonged to before I became a Pastor and the two churches where I served as Pastor were all autonomous and chose to affiliate with the SBC. We were never ruled or told what to do. The doctrine that we taught and lived by was directly from the Bible. We participated in the Cooperative Program because we were/are convinced that we can do more training (colleges & seminaries) and keep more missionaries (national & international) on the field than we could ever do by ourselves. The vast majority of Protestant churches are small but collectively we can accomplish much more than individually.
If you only consider the large (Super Church) non-denominational churches, they can obviously get some things done better and faster than the smaller church but so can the large SBC church.
I would want to know what any church I am going to attend or belong to teaches and what they believe. The name on their sign doesn’t matter and could be generic but what they believe and who they cooperate with does make a difference to me.
Maybe a study on the difference in church polity (who runs the church) would be more beneficial.
I’m a lifelong Southern Baptist, an active pastor of an SBC church who believes that the convention is out of touch with anything or any need outside of big church, new churches, and the southeastern part of the country. The Cooperative Program used to mean something to me. Now it is the funding for a NAMB agenda that is disagreeable to most Southern Baptists.
I’m pretty much disillusioned by my denomination and detatched from it. I see it as wasteful and bureaucratic with little if any concern for the health and welfare of existing churches. I’m not sure how you can be one of 40K plus churches and feel alone.
Amen Hallelujah psalms 199;9= Beth alpha+Omega=? = YHWH ELOHIM
Just a nit-picking point… you mentioned that “non-denominational are the second largest Protestant denomination… and only the SBC is larger”. Baptists are not protestants. That point was hammered home with historical evidence to back it up in my first year in Seminary.
I grew up Baptist, went Assembly of God as an adult, changed to non-denominational in my 30s and went to both a Vineyard and a Messianic in my late 40 and early 50s. All of them have the same problem. The hierarchy structure [i.e. nicolaitans] is unreachable by the every-day member. They are taught and believe that they have ultimate control of the church they run and the people in the pews (or chairs, as the case may be). If they are teaching or living in opposition to the Scriptures, they are untouchable and unteachable especially by someone who is not in the inner elite circle. Each one, denomination, non-denomination or inter-denomination all have one thing in common … denomination or a set of “pet doctrines” that they adhere to more than Scripture itself.
Thus, we (my husband and I agree) that we would have a small home fellowship and actually learn the Word of Yahweh [Genesis to Revelation as all one book] rather than follow doctrines and commandments of men.
Do not conform of the world as of yet to live in the world, the small home fellowship and hear the Word.
My heart was grieved when I realized that a number of my friends at work were Christians but did not attend church. I asked why and they said the judgmentalism was too much. What is going on with the Church that this happens? I find there are many claiming to carry the banner of Christ but it is a whip. As Christians, we need to love without ceasing (sorry for mixing verses).
As a former denominational worker and lifelong Southern Baptist, it seems that reasons 2 & 3 may be the most compelling on the list. Our constant bickering and divisions over various personalities has caused those within the fold to grow weary of such distracting behavior. This along with our overly political message may have gotten us lumped in with other denominations and their stance on various hot-button issues. I would love to know just how many of those involved in non-denominational churches are former Southern Baptists.
Great article. I have been in predominantly non-denoms my whole life. I have been involved with a few United Methodist Churches and I have to say that their checks and balances far surpass ANY non-denom that I have been associated with. An extremely high percentage of non-denoms that I have seen lack severely in the area of being good stewards of their financial resources.
Imo, the main reason to leave a church should be doctrinal, that is, the church started teaching doctrine the one deems to be false. Getting your feelings hurt, or petty disagreements should not cause one to leave. I wonder how many people join a church without reading their statement of faith and agreeing with it?
Not surprised by these results. I spent most of my time in a denomination, and everything was backwards. It seemed like everything flowed from the local church up to a district level, then up to the General level, when in reality support, vision, resources, training/equipping should have been flowing into the local church. Once we decided to go the Non-Denom. route we took those resources and put back into outreach programs, and experienced growth like I have never seen in the denomination before. Local churches need to be engaged in their local communities.
I am a member of the original non denominational church, the catholic church and I am happy Jesus Christ put me there.
Denomination or non-denomination, I believe what should be important to a Christian is what you are doing to contribute to the prosperity of God’s Kingdom where you worship God. It takes committed Christian to have any of those churches to provide what makes them what they are. Contribute your quoter to growth and expansion of God’s kingdom instead of hopping from one church to the other.
The Lord is coming.
Being non-denominational to me simply means, you believe in God, Son, and the Holy Spirit. You believe God loves the world so much that he sent his one and only son to die for YOUR sins (John 3:16). When you believe in the resurrection you believe in eternal life. Life after death, which everyone will be judged before God and will either be condemned to an eternity in Hell or will live a victorious eternity in Heaven (Matthew 12:36). The Holy Spirit was sent down from God and in turn that Holy Spirit guides us in our walk with the Lord, kind of like our gut instinct (John 14:26). In my church we don’t change up anything in the bible and you abide by what it says and believe in it whole-heartedly. We believe in salivation for everyone, no matter what sins you have committed. Come to the Lord as you are and he will love you for who you are. The non-denominational belief is (rather, should be) based on love and truth. You are to be as Christ and accept one another just as he has done for you; with open arms and hearts (Romans 15:7). Another thing I will mention is that the Church and the people in it make up the body of Christ, you need to work together instead of tearing each other down (Romans 12: 4-5). Everyone has a role they play 🙂 you just need to search for it (1 Corinthians 27-31). Personally, as I’ve grown it’s less of a denomination and more along the lines of, “Hey, I love the Lord. They love the Lord. Let’s love the Lord together!”, the basis of Christianity is glorifying the one thing that brings us together as humans; God. I see it as a way for everyone to connect in the name of Jesus. I’ve always told people as they are contemplating to give their life to the Lord that God isn’t a way out of life’s struggles; your problems don’t magically disappear. But in those troubled times you have a friend to lean on and you aren’t alone in the battle. Basically, God is love (1 John 4: 7-8). He is the reason we can believe in going to our eternal paradise called Home or as the bible calls it, Heaven. If you have any replies on what I have just stated I will gladly answer any questions you have. 🙂
For the most of my 65 years, I have attended Baptist churches. I have, always, felt that the best doctrine and the worst doctrine comes from the Baptists. I attended for the purpose of hearing God’s word taught and using my spiritual gifts for the betterment of the body. As of recently, it seems that the Baptists have more interest in teaching denominational beliefs than all aspects of the Word of God. The changes in the Baptist denomination have made me decide to seek other churches. I have tried, 3 other denominational churches only to find that the teaching is more of “trying to prove the other denominations wrong.”
A few visits to Non-denominational groups has shown nothing but entertainment, social programs, feel good, cupcake sermons and little truth. Also, I don’t remember reading about multi million dollar pastors in the Book of Acts. Justify it anyway you want, it is not there. A “double measure” yes, a 200 measures, nope.
This is my 5th week, in a row, of not going to church. I can’t remember missing an assembly in 25 years, other than a vacation here and there. I know what some are thinking “forsake not the assemblies” and don’t get your eye on people. As of now, I admit that I am struggling, struggling to find an honest, scripture teaching “Assembly” that is not afraid to teach “EVERY Word that proceeds from the mouth of God”. It is difficult to “not focus on people” when the people are focused on denominational beliefs and not the truth resident in the Scriptures.
Right with you. There’s only one truth-and that is God. Denominations are groups that misinterpret Christianity and leave out verses they despise. They’re the ones leading people astray and who the Bible warns against denominations since they divide the Church.
i.e. Paul warns against this “division” in Scripture and many will perish as a result of following these denominations since they’re 100% fake.
The only real “religion”/reality is God. There’s no such thing as religion (only idol worship or the truth-which is God/the life we’re living in).
Gods true church is not a denom it is not organized religion its not genealogy what it is, a body of believers that keep his commandments and have the faith of his begotten son. 3 steps to the truth 1. Accritly I.D your biases. 2. Aquire an maintain the ability to set your biases aside.3. Except the truth as it is given. even if you dont like it. You must love his truth. Im 61 iv studied with many denom over the years and the day I set my heart to keep his commandments my life changed I now have the faith that will not fail.go back to the beginning of your doctrine. Back to babalyon the mistery religon the look at all the pagan practices in your church . Christmas, easter, the list is long.we are to worship God in truth and in spirit .remember the sabbath to keep it Holly .with the Internet there’s mo excuse for not knowing who changed the sabbath from his holly day to a pagan sun worship day.the truth is what sets us free, his word is truth .Google simon maguss. Do your oun home work , trust no man with your salvation.
Ed, you may want to know that there is a difference between sabbath observance and gathering of two or three or more people in the name of Jesus. We don’t hear of it after creation, nor with the fathers of our faith(Abraham, Isaac, Jacob…) until its institution in the wilderness as a perpetual covenant with the children of Israel, together with the instructions on how to observe it – a shadow of the rest to come. Concerning the early Gentile converts into christianity, of the new covenant it is written, ‘one man esteems one day above other days, another esteems all days alike. Let each one be convinced in their own minds. Let no-one therefore pass judgement on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath, which are a shadow of things to come.’ Forget the extravagant claims made by some institutions on their authority of changing the observance from one day to another.Blessings.
There is no perfect
I am a Catholic and after going to church in the morning I attend a non-denominational church coz they dance alot
If your listening and silence in the heart is missing the body, mind and soul will stray to a nondenominational church where the strings to hang on to are lots weaker and where the feeling to ‘just might as well fall off’ from despair will prevail. With flaws and scandals I rather stay where I am at because the Church I go to is the only one instituted by Jesus Christ over 2000 years ago. To my understanding all the others are Off-Shoots from It, yet, trying to reinvent the 2000 year old one. Pastors from non-denominational churches are not ordained but self proclaimed. Usually their sermons are for those wanting a motivational lift rather than a Spiritual lift. Regardless of flaws I would feel I left an arm or a leg, and all benefits to my soul should I go to a nondenominational church that I am not in Communion with. This is why I dont understand why Non-Denominational Churches exist. Listen, be silent and still, have Reverence and all will come to you and you wont want to stray.
In reference to the “ekklesia” community I am always reminded of what the biblical scholar F. F. Bruce once said, “I wonder what the church would be like today if it had no walls?”
Pastor Royle,
http://www.jasoneroyle.com
I don’t know if this forum is still open due to dates. I left the church many years ago as a teenager. Baptist religion was shoved down my throat. There was so much Hypocrisy in the church. My father was Church of Christ and my sister and I were forbidden to go there with him. After years of being away from the church. I have recommitted my life to Christ As He is my Savior and only he and my relationship with him is what matters. It’s what he did for me at the cross. There is nothing I can do to earn his love, he simply loves me . I am the women at the well . He met me where I was. I did nothing to deserve His grace. God is love period. Searching for a church I came across this blog. No wonder I left the church. One thing missing here is the focus . Our focus is to be on Jesus . NOT THE CHURCH. Going to church every Sunday no more makes you a christian than sleeping in the garage makes you a car. How can non believers Come to Christ when there is so much discord amongst denominations ? Jesus is the only way , not the church or it’s rules and regulations. Are we the scribes and Pharisees that crucified Christ? Only have faith in him and not in man . From What I have read here as when I left the church , you are putting the cart before the horse.
I am emphatically sharing the truth that the worship is great in the denominational churches , there is sanctity why because the Church is the place only meant for praise ,preaching and practicing faith . The place is holy whereas the other groups hire buildings which are used for many other purposes drinking dancing etc , so where is holiness GOD SAID BE HOLY AS IAM HOLY . People have parties there ,they drink and what not .Don’t you think the God whom we worship is a Jealous GOD . The people are organizing Christian services in places which also are being used for partying drinking and what not . Personally I feel these kind of members from these congregations will not be blessed. Friends if you don’t believe me then please check it for you self Iam sorry but I think I got some intuition and I shared. In all the churches there are differences of opinion , but if you carefully notice the proper church building meant for HIS worship — has the members who are blessed . Dr Hemant Kumar Bilaspur CG India
I am emphatically sharing the truth that the worship is great in the denominational churches , there is sanctity why because the Church is the place only meant for praise ,preaching and practicing faith . The place is holy whereas the other groups hire buildings which are used for many other purposes drinking dancing etc , so where is holiness GOD SAID BE HOLY AS IAM HOLY . .Don’t you think the God whom we worship is a Jealous GOD . Personally I feel these kind of members from these congregations will not be blessed. Friends if you don’t believe me then please check it for you self Iam sorry but I think I got some intuition and I shared. In all the churches there are differences of opinion , but if you carefully notice the proper church building meant for HIS worship — has the members who are blessed . Dr Hemant Kumar Bilaspur CG India
There is only one faith, one church, one baptism, one Christ, not churches faiths, baptisms, Christs.
I know a Pastor and co-Pastor of a “Non-Denominational” Church – sad to say, they are all about “the money”.
Their “church” is run like a business (which utilizes the financial “giving” of its members to purchase other non-religious businesses for their own personal and financial benefit). Their “church” accounts financially to no one but themselves. No “members” ever see the “books” or know about the financials of the “church”. One must apply for memberships – from what I hear, a new prospective member must submit an application and three years of tax returns. Only then will you be selected for “membership” and a determination made for your monthly “giving” to the “church”.
Additionally, this “church” does nothing for the local community in which it resides – no food banks, no clothing drives, no helping the poor, handicap, or needy. The “church” conducts “spiritual” programs for only their members, no outsiders are ever invited nor the programs made available to the local community. They do have oversees “mission” trips to not-so third-world countries. Mainly the trips are utilized for glitzy vacation destinations for the Pastor and co-Pastor.
The Pastor and co-Pastor are heavy narcissists – selfies of themselves conducting “business” at their “church”, posing like models, and praising the Lord Jesus for being upgraded to first class while on a mission trip.
No wonder the “membership” is primarily comprised of 20-somethings (young and dumb). In that age group you haven’t lived or experienced enough to know that you’re being taken advantage of.
These “churches” are businesses plain and simple. Think Joel Olsteen and Jim and Tammy Faye Baker. They suck you in with nice, kind, feel-good religious messages – but live a sinful, shallow life.
Be aware!
point #8 bring up the story of a man who finally, after years of arm twisting to get the guy in church, stated his major objection to being in your typical church when he stated……..”I was looking for a “church”, I’ve GOT a “bank”!.. Let’s be totally honest too many churches have gazillions in the bank while people not 2 miles away from the church building are hurting, starving, and poor. Some reserve is probably ok,let’s say for a six month dry spell. But…come on! Many bank accounts are obscene in light of the needs out there….. What’s our response….usually we’ll set aside Thanksgiving and Christmas to send them food baskets. Haven’t really quite figured out why we don’t wanna feed them the other 363 days in the year!?!?!?!? Is this to calm our souls that we’ve done “something” over “nothing” while the other 68K sets in the bank drawing interest?? THIS is a HUGE reason many look into the church and see a problem. We (inside) are the only one’s who don’t seem to “get it” because we’ve blurred the line between being good stewards…and faithless, worldly hoarders. I realize that’s tough language…but when you have cancer (from experience) band aids won’t do–it takes radical surgery to get better! The church better wise up to that fact….and soon.
EVERY WIND OF NEW TEACHING? BY STEVE FINNELL
Immature Christians are subject to every wind of new teaching. (Ephesians 4:14 Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won’t be tossed about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth.) NLV- New Living Translation.
The Christians in the first century believed the apostles teaching on salvation. Which was Faith: John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.(NKJV) Repentance: Acts 3:19 “Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. (NKJV) Confession: Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (NKJV) Immersion in Water: Mark 16:16 “He who believes and is baptized will be saved…Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.(NKJV)
Would a mature Christian leave the first century church of Christ to place their membership in a church that did believe the apostles teaching on salvation. Would they have joined The Church of Jehovah’ Witnesses, The Baptist Church, The Latter Day Saints, The Methodist Church, The Church of The Salvation Army, The Community Church, The Lutheran Church, the Church of The Masonic Lodge, The Pentecostal Church, The Roman Catholic Church?
The apostle Paul asked the elders of the church to guard against those would trick immature Christians with lies so clever they sound like the truth. (Acts 20:28-30 “Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.29 “For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 “Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.(NKJV)
It would appear that over time the elders of the Lord’s Church have fallen asleep at the wheel.
Neither Jesus nor the apostles gave multiple terms of pardon for salvation.
FAITH, REPENTANCE, CONFESSION, IMMERSION IN WATER—Just one plan of salvation.
YOU ARE INVITED TO FOLLOW MY BLOG>>> steve-finnell.blogspot.com
I was raised in the Catholic Church—baptism, confession, communion, confirmation, twelve years of parochial education. I’m not going to blast the Catholic Church, but when I would ask why we did something or believed something, the canned response I got was, “Because the church says so.” Eventually I stopped asking because I wasn’t getting any answers that made sense.
It wasn’t until I actually read the Bible, start to finish, that I realized why so many of the things I was taught didn’t make sense. I mean no disrespect to my fellow Christians of the Catholic faith, but the Word of God and the word of the church are often not one and the same. For example, read Exodus 20:1-17 and compare it to the Ten Commandments you were taught in catechism (Word of God versus word of the church). Pay special attention to verses 4-6, which are the real second commandment as spoken by God. Why is this not in the version of the Ten Commandments taught in catechism? And why did they split the real tenth commandment (verse 17) into two different commandments to fill the hole left by removing the actual second commandment?
Also (and this will me my last point on this subtopic) in catechism we were taught that if you die with a mortal sin on your soul you go straight to Hell, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Mortal sin is a very broad range of offenses, including not attending mass on the Sabbath or during a holy day of obligation. So if someone led an otherwise righteous life but skipped mass one Sunday and dropped dead of a heart attack before a priest administered the sacrament of penance then it’s off to the lake of fire. That’s not remotely biblical. As a matter of fact, it’s completely contradictory of what Jesus himself said.
Once I started following the Word of God instead of the word of the church, things started making sense. The scales fell from my eyes and for the first time I began to see God’s message clearly. Reading the bible is like Lasik for the soul. This is very tough, very challenging. It means surrendering your will to that of God. This is not for the faint of heart.
As I read a lot of these comments I must say I’m very, very blessed to be a part of a nondenominational church that is 100% bible based. They teach a four step approach to bible study that starts with “context” to make sure what you are citing is appropriate for the application you’re seeking. There’s none of this “find a verse, take it out of context and apply it to something completely different” nonsense that’s so prevalent in new age Christianity. We’re almost done with a six part series on Leviticus, and believe me, if anyone in the congregation thought this was some laid back do-what-you-want church, by now they know better.
Anyway, I truly mean no disrespect to my fellow Christians who remain Catholic. I wish you nothing but the best and pray that feel the same toward those of us who have taken a more bible-based approach to salvation. God bless, and take care.
Jay, I am sorry for your experience in not getting your questions answered (I guess there are more?) about the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ at Pentecost 2000 years ago. Since I do not know the core beliefs of your nondenominational church, or how it interprets the bible, it is not possible for me to see how close or far away it is from the Catholic Church. That being the case, if you are still interested in getting your questions answered from a Catholic perspective, may I ask you to check out the resource below?
Based on your comments, it appears to me you seek to follow 100% bible only or “sola scriptura”, yes? Is the reason why you became Protestant because you believe “sola scriptura” is scriptural? How did you decide which books are in the canon of the New Testament for “sola scriptura”, and which writings are to be excluded? Catholic Answers recently answered a caller with a Protestant background regarding this topic in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g72zamBPFk.
I hope this resource is helpful. May God keep and bless you always!
I prefer non-denominational churches to traditional simply because of the freedom to worship God in whatever manner you like. I am a hand lifter, sometimes I want to dance, I get so overjoyed; I feel stymied in a traditional service and not comfortable with not being able to praise God in the way that the Holy Spirit leads me. The contemporary services at some churches are nice, but you feel the limitation there. We are supposed to be free to worship God, that is my belief. Of course, I also believe that all should be done orderly and reverently before our God. David danced before the Lord, the Jewish people clapped their hands and raised their hands in praise, and shouted out to God. Why was all of this EVER removed from traditional churches, I wonder?
I left the Catholic Church twice, the last time for good. I grew tired of the constant call to pray for more priests all the while leaving women out cold. I got tired of the Church not really dealing with clergy sex abuse. I could go on. Anyway, I began really studying the bible and fell in love with Christ. I just want to worship Christ without all the restrictive rules and dogmas, many of which have zero biblical basis.
Yeah girl 100%.
Hey, so The Bible was the guide line for our lives. Many people came along and used the Bible yet added their own idea to suit their lifestyles. All priests, pastors, ministry leaders are just people, yes they may have the gift of giving out the message but they still humans just like us so they sin just like us… Jesus said we are the church not a building. Don’t be foolish to believe one person, read the word and you will receive the wisdom you need to live out your life. Be a follower of Jesus, that’s what God tells us to do. Jesus also said that not all who call Him “Lord, Lord” will inherit the kingdom of heaven. I also went to a church many different ones, and all they said was it is okay to compromise the Bible for my lifestyle where God clearly states it’s NOT okay! I started studying the Bible last year and yes I realized their are many false teachers or teach the Word incorrectly.
I don’t like churches in general. They are businesses. This switch occurred about 400 years in when Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. He wanted that so that it could be used as a unifying force for an ailing disintegrating empire. Christianity was coopted by politicians and pagans, and the simple practices and ways of early Christianity were lost. Meeting in homes which were lead by a plurality of unpaid teaching elders was outlawed and preplaced with pagan temple style programs and edifices. Paid professional clergy replaced the priesthood of every believer. Only the professionals participated for a passive audience whereas previously meetings were open participatory and spirit led.
Can’t stand church inc. once I learned the historical facts about how it wasn’t always like it is now and how that change occurred I could understand why I hated it and that it was ok to do so.
Wow, I can’t believe some of the comments of negativity about the Lutheran church.
People need to understand humans are flawed and sinful by nature. That’s why we need Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior for our salvation. I too have had negative experiences in the church when I was young, but that because of the people attending the church, not the Lutheran church itself. Although I don’t go to church right now I know I will again when God calls me there and Y’all must remember it’s about having Faith in the Lord and believing in Jesus Christ because there is no salvation for those who do not believe and that is a hard truth not many want to hear. I’m Lutheran and do use a rosary when I pray, but I do not pray to Mary only Jesus Christ the Lord. Fyi, Lutherans do honor the saints and have respect for them we just do not pray to them or Mary. We pray to God himself and pray to Jesus for forgiveness. That is the only difference between us and The Catholics. We all have Holy communion say the Lord’s prayer and the Apostles Creed.
Well I think many people are drifting into non denominational churches because of many practical application of scriptures in the in these non denominational churches. Example, healing and deliverance fantastic miracles, breakthroughs and prosperity, many of these are less emphasized in the denominational churches.
Some, if not many, denominational Christian churches still operate under some of the Old Covenant practices. Some, still have priests; they collect tithes, which had the do with the priests. New Covenant giving is, that each believer is supposed to decide in his/her heart what to give, and to do each joyfully. Give as much as you are able, but it is not bondage. Neither should you feel that you have to “pay” to attend church services. Two or more believers make the Church; church facilities are just that, a place for like-minded believers to gather in edifying each other. The outreach is usually mostly outside the facility; wherever two or more believers are at, that’s church. Not all people realize that their are two theologies of Biblical interpretation. The Calvinist interpretation basically is that at birth, God chooses who is saved and who is not. Some denominations that follow this interpretation are the Presbyterians, and the Lutherans. This interpretation is a lie! Jesus said that anyone who calls on his name shall be saved, therefore salvation is available to everyone, if they so chose to repent of their sins before Almighty God, in the name of Jesus. The true interpretation is what some call the Armenian or Wesleyan, interpretation. Any fallacy is what some denominations, including the Southern Baptist believe, that once you are saved, you are always saved. This is not true. Yes, it is true that no one can take away your salvation, but you can give it up, by going back to sinful living. And, it appears that most Protestant churches (fellowships) don’t believe or teach about the Rapture, the snatching away, or catching up of Christian believers, i.e. The Church, the Bride of Christ, before God deals with the unbelieving Jewish nation, during the 7 years of Tribulation, for rejecting the Messiah, Jesus Christ. After the end of the seven years, Jesus Himself will return with His Bride, the (New Covenant) Church, along with his angels to put an end to the Tribulation; that is the 2nd Coming of Christ. At the Rapture, He does not come down to Earth itself, but first resurrects the dead in Christ onto the clouds, in eternal, resurrected bodies, and then transform the living Believers into new, eternal, perfect bodies. Most Jews don’t believe in Jesus today, because God Himself has blinded their eyes, their understanding, in part until they are afforded the opportunity to repent and accept the true Messiah, Jesus Christ, during the Tribulation. Unfortunately, many, if not most who do will be martyred, but will be resurrected at Jesus’ 2nd Coming. Some believe that Gentiles, i.e. non-Jews, will have an opportunity to be saved during the Tribulation (I hope that is true, but!). I don’t believer that, because in the book of Romans, it states that when the last Gentile is brought in, i.e. to the Church, in other words, saved, then the Rapture will occur. After the Rapture, God will raise up 144,000 Jewish Messengers, i.e. Believers of Christ, to spread the message of salvation to the Jewish Nation. At the 2nd Coming of Christ, He will establish His Kingdom on the Earth, for 1,000 years, hence The Millennium. He will rule the Earth, assisted by His Bride, the New Testament Believers, and Jewish Believers. Hallelujah! Help us Lord to overcome this decadent society!
‘Numerous main line denominations have fallen to a social gospel of political
correctness. There is nothing politically correct about the gospel of Jesus Christ.
These big denominations are emptying out while the bible preaching, Christ
honoring churches are filling up. Bending the gospel to fit current political
trends is not what we are called to. Nice people of all persuasions go to hell.
Add to or subtract from the bible at your eternal peril.
It’s been interesting to watch the relationship between Churches of Christ and other non-denominational churches. In some ways, such as a lack of hierarchy beyond the local congregation, the models are similar. In terms of connections and interactions with other churches, this lack of hierarchy also seems to produce some level of division and perhaps even distrust. As the non-denominational movement has grown, I have seen many in my own tribe say, “Hey, those guys are stealing our lines! We’ve been doing this for 200 years!” 🙂 Great article and great thoughts as always, Thom. Thanks.
THE NUMBER REASON , SHOULD BE AND FOR ME IS [ IS NOT BIBLICAL ,PERIOD.
Denominational churches are really too much politics. I totally agree with all those reasons. I still wonder why there are still churches like that.