The church of 150 in attendance averaged two first-time guests a week, or 100 a year. How many joined the church? Only three.
The church had no follow-up in place for guests.
The church of 225 in attendance had a high attendance day of 360, with 75 guests attending that single day. How many of the 75 eventually joined the church? Only two.
The church had no follow-up in place for guests.
The church of 550 in attendance has had a Christmas event the past ten years that draws 1,500 people each year. That’s 15,000 in ten years. How many new members can the church trace to the Christmas event? Zero. None. Nada.
The church had no follow-up in place for guests.
So what’s going on? Why are so many of our churches lousy at follow-up? I can point to at least six clear reasons.
- The church has no plan in place for follow-up. Follow-up does not just happen. A Great Commission church will know exactly what it’s supposed to do and who is supposed to do it every time a guest visits the church.
- Follow-up takes place outside the walls, a place of discomfort for many church members. A church’s follow-up ministry team needs to have the most outwardly focused members doing the ministry. Too many church members fear connecting with people outside the comfort of the walls of the church building.
- Follow-up ministry is not as splashy as other ministries. It often goes without encouragement or recognition.
- Follow-up ministry can become discouraging. Most of the time we focus on the five who expressed no desire to connect with our church rather than the one who did. We need to celebrate our follow-up ministries more.
- Follow-up ministry is not emphasized or recognized by leadership. That which is rewarded by leadership often gets the attention of the rest of the church. Not many leaders recognize or reward this ministry.
- Follow-up ministry is not even considered a ministry in many churches. Go to the websites of a number of churches. See how many of them mention some type of follow-up ministry as one of the ministries of the church. For many church members, that ministry simply does not appear to exist.
If our churches and their leaders would begin to elevate the importance of follow-up ministries incrementally, we would likely see a disproportionately positive response. It’s an incredible opportunity most churches are missing.
Let me hear from you.
Looking for information and/or a blog that answers the question: “What to do when the bully is the pastor” and “How to tactfully and spiritually dismiss a pastor.”.
This really isn’t that kind of blog. What you will find here on the whole are ideas on how to grow your church, and consolidate power in the pastorate. The congregation, whether it be lay people (ugh hate that term), staff, elders, etc outside of the senior pastor are often framed as antagonists.
The very fact that you can conceive of your pastor as being a bully, or in need of being removed has made you an adversary in the culture that you are speaking into.
The blog libertyforcaptives.com is no longer active at the moment, but has a ton of resources on abusive leadership.
Unfortunately what many have found is that it is so difficult to remove abusive leadership, that the best advice is often to “vote with your feet” and leave. I personally hate that advice, but it is a difficult situation, and I don’t have better.
The correct response to that kind of leadership is to serve faithfully, remain submitted and walk in the love of God. Also, you may want to be careful that you’re not the one who really needs the work in that kind of situation. If an offense is taken or there is bitterness in your heart, you are worse off than the leader. You may want to study how David responded to King Saul as he hunted David for his life. Also, you can read A Tale of Three Kings. Probably not the answer you were looking for, but it is the only position you are obligated to take.
AMEN!
See what I mean. Abusive leadership is never a problem with these people, just the disobedient sheep in the pews.
Touch not the Lord’s anointed. The pastor is your king, kneel and kiss his ring.
The lesson of the Kings of Israel could never be that when you put a human king over you that he will use and abuse you (Samuel 8).
Jesus could never have meant it when you said that we shouldn’t lord over people like leaders in the world do (Matthew 20).
Being an abusive bully as a pastor couldn’t possibly disqualify you from leadership. Of course abusive men are “above reproach” here. These are obviously men who are sober minded, self controlled, respectable, and gentle (1 Timothy 3).
Thanks for illustrating my previous point Mark.
I believe the original question was “what to do when the bully is the pastor” and “how to tactfully and spiritually dismiss a pastor.” She is asking what is her RESPONSE to improper leadership and that is what I answered. I in no way denied that there are pastors who should not be leaders and have disqualified themselves by not living up to the standards of leadership as outlined in the Word of God. Jesus said the greatest leaders are first the greatest servants, to serve, not be served. But you will never be justified for operating out of bitterness or offense toward even the worst leadership, godly or ungodly. If Jesus can say to love your enemy, then he must certainly expect love towards our pastors and leaders. I would recommend praying for these kinds of leaders. And who knows, God may be using you to minister to these individuals. But you do not have the right or authority to “tactfully or spiritually dismiss” a pastor. Hopefully this individual has accountability around him that can speak to him on these issues or even better, he will yield to the Holy Spirit in making the corrections he needs to make, even stepping down from ministry.
So to sum up as I stated before, your response is to continue to serve faithfully, remain submitted and walk in love. If you believe God called you to that church, then you don’t leave unless God calls you somewhere else. And if you choose to stay, this is how one ought to operate.
It would be helpful if the pastor in question had accountability that could address the issue, but the truth is that many don’t. Frankly, the advice that, and overall attitude, of this site helps to facilitate those situations by encouraging an antagonistic relationship between THE SENIOR PASTOR and everyone else within the congregation. They go out of their way to characterize any dissenting opinion as rebellion, disobedience, or as you characterized it bitterness.
What is a person to do when they find themselves in a congregation that they feel called to that is being led by an abusive man that either has no accountability or has surrounded himself with a group of “yes-men” elders?
I refuse to believe that, this interaction;
“My church is being pastored by an abusive bully.”
“Aww man, that stinks, you should really pray about that”
is any different from this one;
“Brother help me, my family is starving”
“Aww man, that stinks, you should really pray about that”
I might come off as too liberal if I say that we, in the name of Christ, should advocate for those in the world that are being oppressed and marginalized, but is it really too much to ask that we not tolerate that activity within our own gatherings?
Dallas, I absolutely understand where you’re coming from. I know there is flawed leadership in many churches. And this is damaging on multiple levels. I am a Sr Pastor and I have taken measures in my own life personally that keeps me grounded as I am aware of the tendency in human nature to absorb power and go on “power trips” that are abusive to the ones God has called me to lead. I am aware many pastors have not done this and are hurting themselves and others as a result.
But again I refer to the individuals original question: what is THEIR response to this type of leadership. I know the original inclination is to step in and do something about this kind of leader, “tactfully and spiritually dismiss” them, confront them, make their actions known to the public, etc. I simply cannot find a basis for this behavior in scripture. I’m not sure why you believe “this site” or my responds lends to the attitude that if you identify flawed leadership you are disobedient and rebellious. That is not my implication at all. I gave 3 simple steps in response to pastors that abuse their powers: serve faithfully, remain submitted and walk in love. So let’s look at the alternatives: don’t continue to serve faithfully, become rebellious and disobedient and respond out of hate. Which of the 2 do you believe God’s Word calls us to do? Also, don’t remain so small minded that you believe the fight is between you and the pastor. We don’t fight against flesh and blood, but against spiritual enemies. The ultimate enemy in all of this is the devil, trying to divide the church from within. I believe the love of God is so powerful that it is a better option than trying to “dismiss” pastors that abuse their powers. I believe prayer is the greater option than allowing hurts and pains to create bitterness in your heart that would allow you to conclude that you must take action to remove a pastor. There are many people in this predicament across our nation and this is why I continue to respond. To bring light to the fact that you showing Gods love and praying for these men will always win and trump anything you could do naturally. I would encourage you and any others that have been victims of these kind of pastors to seek God, pray and ask him what is your option. But could it be that God has placed you there for that very purpose? That rather than thinking of how you can get rid of such a pastor, you could actually minister to them and help them? Maybe God wants to use you to soften their heart and see their ways and how they are hurting others? I understand this is a different position than the world would present, but that is what Gods Kingdom is all about. Learning to respond according to Gods Word rather than personal feelings.
I hope this helps and that you and others will take the time to seek God’s Word and truly respond in Godly way.
Mark, here’s the thing, there is a lot of focus put on preaching and teaching when it comes to the pastor, but when it comes right down to it the word pastor is probably more accurately translated shepherd. How do we identify a shepherd?
If I have one person put in front of me who is concerned about protecting the flock, and another who is hurting the flock, which is the shepherd and which is the wolf?
If a shepherd starts hurting the sheep, he ceases to be a shepherd and proves to be a wolf. We should not abide wolves among the flock. If it takes a shepherdess, like Linda, to protect the flock, then so be it. It may be the only shepherding that she ever does, but it beats being a wolf.
The good shepherd laid down his life for the sheep, those who claim the role of shepherd should never be allowed to do the sheep harm.
As a pastor yourself, it ought to make you sick that there is someone out there… and there are many, who are hurting the sheep in the name of Christ. Even if you are faithful to those who you have been given to watch over, don’t let it dull your reaction to others that might otherwise be abused.
Dallas, I’m not sure how you are substantiating your responses Biblically. I would leave you with this: let God take care of leadership that is abusive. Trust me, God loves the victims in those situations way more than you or Linda. He sees the pain the leader is going through that is causing them to act out in such a manner, and he sees the pain it is causing members that are caught in the crosshairs of such leadership. If you feel compelled, approach and confront the leader themselves. But be careful of the following:
Speaking to others in the church to “warn” them of such leadership. This causes dissension and only makes matters worse.
Don’t lose sight of the fact that the leader is an individual as well and regardless of their behavior, God cares very much for them. If your heart is not restoration for the leader, but only to see him hurt and removed from leadership, this is not of God.
And lastly, don’t allow an issue from the past to create a lens through which you see all pastors/leaders in the future. No future pastor deserves to have to disprove your view of pastors based upon your circumstance. And if you’re looking for the “perfect” pastor, I’m afraid you will come up short.
I pray for you and Linda and the countless others that are in such circumstances. I pray the leaders actions come to light and that God will heal any wounds they may have caused.
Linda, I am the wife of a pastor who was considered by some of his parishioners to be a bully. They forcibly removed him from his job and it has been an agonizing couple years for our family. Not only did we lose our main source of income, but also our place of worship and our home and many of the friends we had made were turned against us in the process. Of course, if he truly is a wolf, then perhaps some rebuking is needed, though consider how extreme this punishment is. Is this the way a church loves their neighbor?
On the other hand, many of the things my husband was accused of were totally misconstrued. Where he saw them as doing them out of love and care for his flock, they saw them as stubborn and demanding. Many of the things they complained about were doctrinal issues in our church body where the congregation had been misinformed or doing it not in accordance with our church body in the past. If the pastor tries to change a policy to make it adhere to our belief system and that doesn’t jive with tradition, he sees himself as the caretaker, trying to correct erring children for their own good. They see him as a bully.
So what can you do? I don’t know. Every situation is different. But here is what I wished our congregation had done:
1. Talk to your pastor, but with an open mind. Don’t go in with a list of demands. Give him a chance to show you in scriptures why he’s doing what he’s doing. Why he believes what he believes. Ask him why. Have a conversation with him–not with everyone else around you, but with him, as Matthew 18 suggests.
2. When your congregation called this person they asked God to send them who they needed — not necessarily who they wanted. (At least that’s how we believe it in our church body.). Prayerfully consider why God would have you suffer under this man. Perhaps He has something He would have your congregation learn by having this man in your midst.
3. Prayerfully consider your own expectations of the pastor. Are they biblical or just traditions for your congregation? I found that our congregation expected certain things out of my husband that weren’t necessarily the same things he had seen his pastors do in the past. They weren’t necessarily things he had learned in the seminary. They weren’t necessarily biblical. But no one took the time to carefully explain their expectations. So examine those expectations. Are they reasonable? Have they been explained to him–not as demands, but rather as “Pastor we were hoping you would be doing more….” Make your examples concrete and specific.
4. Make your criticism constructive.
An example from our time at this congregation: he had many complaints about the hymns he selected. Whereas the church he grew up had a rich hymnody, this congregation did not. So people complained about the hymns. People would say, “I hate the hymns you picked a few Sundays ago.” And he would ask them to give him specific examples “oh I can’t remember which ones.” Or he would ask for ideas of which hymns they would want instead and they would reply, “I don’t know.” Well, that kind of criticism does no good for anyone. Make sure your criticism is constructive and concrete.
5. Remember that God calls *men* to shepherd his flock. Men who are flawed and sinners just the same as you. There are countless examples of flawed men leading God’s people through and to amazing things in the Bible.
6. Pray. Pray. Pray. We’re called to pray. For everyone, even our enemies. Pray that God would have you change your heart. That God would change his heart. Pray for your congregation. Pray unceasingly.
7. Remember the Ten Commandments and other biblical teachings in your dealings with your pastor. Are you loving your neighbor as yourself? Putting the kindest construction on everything? Refraining from gossiping? Are you forgiving of his trespasses “as God forgives those who trespasses against us” (you)?
I’ll leave you with a few things: I don’t know if these things or situations are true to you, but perhaps you can still gain something from my words. Also, I pray you take my words in the best possible way. I mean not to offend but I’m just sharing things I wish I could have shared with our previous congregation before they voted him out. I myself worried from time to time if my husband was really “cut out” to be a pastor, but the several congregations he’s serving now absolutely love him. One man said to him last week “their loss is our gain.” Was my husband perfect? Absolutely not. But it’s not an easy job to keep erring sheep safe from all the temptations and ways of the world, and sometimes to being erring sheep back to the correct doctrine. I truly believe being a pastor is a pretty awful “job.” At least in our denomination, the pay is certainly not up to par with the advanced degree that is required. Life in the fishbowl is agonizingly hard many days. Everything about you is constantly up for critique from the congregation. Your haircut, your shoes, your kids, your wife, how often you mow the lawn, whether you keep your grill in the garage or on the back patio. Everything.
But my point is that no one in their right minds would do this job unless God called them to it. I really don’t believe God calls pastors willy-nilly. Your pastor, even for his flaws, is still an ordained servant of God. And if you want to reject the servant that God sent you, it’s not something you should do lightly.
If you’ve tried all those things (with an open mind and an open heart) maybe you’ll want to attend another church for a while. Maybe God will open up other opportunities and friendships for you somewhere else?
I will pray for you, your pastor, and your congregation.
We believe in follow up!
We are a 95 yr old church going through revitalization with about 50 in regular attendance. We have a large facility.
On Easter, should we give a gift to visitors? If so, what are some good examples of gifts?
What is a good incentive to get them to come back the week after Easter?
I’ve seen some local christian book stores have “chocolate Jesus” or “chocolate crosses” haha but I”m kidding.
I do know some smaller churches who give fresh baked goods, such as bread, as follow ups to guests. Of course, this is best when the church does “visiting” style follow up. You may could offer a book, bible, coffee mug, gift card ect to visitors on Easter. The guests could “fill out the card” and turn it in to a location within the church (if you don’t have a greeter’s stand like many churches) and give them the gift. This may give a chance to start some conversations, personally invite or pray with guests.
One thing thatI know that is tried, and you probably know this one, is to start a new series (many times a topical style series) the week after easter. It is possible, for families with children or youth, to “push” your youth services/small group/meeting ect.
So thankful to hear of churches revitalizing and reaching out!
We are giving the book After Easter (Jeremy Howard and Doug Powell) to every guest family. It is a small book, but presents the Gospel clearly. The Gospel of John is also included in the book. They are $5.
I would love to hear a podcast on follow up best practices. What are good time frames to reach out after someone has visited, what are the best forms of communication (handwritten letters, email, phone, etc.), how do you train a follow up team, do’s and dont’s, responding to guests that have a bad experience, how often do you follow up (1st, 2nd visit).
Thank you for this topic.
That’s a great idea. We will do that in the near future.
I second this!
I third this!
We just finished that podcast. It will air March 25, next Friday. Mark gets a shout out on the podcast and a free signed book.
Thanks for airing so we can put into practice any tips for following up with the Easter guests!!
You are welcome!
Thanks Thom! Value your insight!
I am a member of the team that follows up with our guests. We employ all the methods you suggest and we get mixed results. So, yes, it is a roller coaster ride. I suppose the most frustrating thing to me is we get a lot of return visits and even guests that attend regularly, but they don’t join. Is it normal to assimilate without joining?
Do you have a specific ‘pathway’ for people to join – e.g. a session for new people, with perhaps then a deeper one for people who want to follow this through? These would be sessions where you explain the Church’s beliefs, aims, aspirations, vision etc. and then get folks to sign up to what you believe if appropriate.
Yes. Every so often we offer a new believer and/or new member class. But we should be more intentional.
Are you talking about denominational dogma, individual congregation dogma, or Christianity?
If people attend and donate, why must they join your particular little group?
The last year of my pastorate before I retired we had a big breakfast meeting with men from all over the county with tickets and all. I failed to have them register so we really didn’t have a list to do follow up. I realized too late that I had missed a real opportunity to do follow up and visitation.
Thanks, John.
thanks you welcome to Kenya Pentecostal Holiness Church
I think one of the reasons church’s struggle with follow-up so much is that we simply don’t know the right way to approach follow-up in today’s world. Folks these days tend to not like you to invade their space. We’ve found this especially true in CO where people are known for being independent, and the younger generation is worst than the older ones. I used to schedule a time to swing by someone’s home with a loaf of bread until I discovered my efforts where counter-effective. Folks were very friendly, but not a single person I visited returned to our church. Not one.
Then I discovered later in a think-tank around follow-up with some of our church’s 30 somethings that the “less intrusive, the better.” Be friendly, perhaps give a verbal invite to lunch or small group, but don’t insert yourself into their lives. They suggested that even a phone call is too much and is awkward contact to get from a church. So other than email, or a face to face invite to lunch we don’t have a lot of options that we used to have. Even with email, I’ve personally written e-mails (not form emails) to response cards and I can’t remember a single response to my emails. And the folks I’ve emailed have mostly not returned. I can’t for the life of me figure out what is happening there. I feel like any approach to follow coming directly from me, the pastor, is cursed (forgive my east coast superstition).
It’s those whom I give the most space to, and let our members do the inviting out to lunch or to a small groups that results in the best response.
I use texting and get about a 60-70% response rate to the texts. Like you said, it’s less intrusive and keeps the ball in their court.
Brian,
Don’t lose hope. I was a 20-something graduate student and I attended a church one time with my (then boyfriend, now husband). Randomly one night during finals, there was a knock at the door of my apartment complex. Two sweet little elderly people came looking for me — for me?!?! Of course, I had to invite them in to my apartment, which was a total disaster area and there I was in my pajamas. I had nothing to offer them to eat or to drink — and they didn’t judge me for a second about any of it. They asked me about my faith life — about what brought me to their congregation, about what I was looking for, what I thought… And after listening for quite some time, they made suggestions tailored to me. And they left me with a Bible.
In my case, the suggestion was to attend a new member class to get to know more about that church body. I attended and was later invited to join the church, after completing the class.
While I was a little taken aback by the initial visit — and the timing couldn’t have been worse, I was definitely not in the state to receive guests — it was their kindness, their listening ear, and their tailored invitation that ultimately did lead me to become a member of the church. Did I mention that I was previously unchurched? (I always think that’s like a double bonus in the evangelism circle. ;-))
Your efforts are not in vain. Remember… you’re not necessarily doing this to “get” more members — but to plant the seed. You’re probably planting more seeds than you’ll ever realize. Spread those seeds with reckless abandon, and let the Holy Spirit do the rest.
Excellent article!!! I have visited numerous churches in my life being settling down in my current church home. All the churches that seemed to be packed, had some type of follow up ministry. The churches with a bunch of empty pews, were the ones that anyone barely shook my hand. I believe one goes with the other.
Thank you, Ronald.
Excellent article. It seems that the effort taken yields little results for most. However, I actually find that with prayer and focused energy, we do accomplish productive follow-up. Biggest tip is don’t be afraid to call or email. If your new guest has left contact information then the assumption is that they want someone to reach out to them. Second to this suggestion is strike while the iron is hot. Calling a week later makes your effort look like an afterthought. Be sure to reach out no later than Wednesday after Easter or any big event that you have. Tuesday is best, after they’ve had time to simmer from Sunday.
Our goal is to reach every single card left with us and get to know them first. Relational efforts go a much longer way than just a flat “Come to our next service or event” type of invite. Last, don’t give up. That person you had coffee with six months ago, just walked in the door and sat down to hear more.
Thom, I applaud the efforts to get churches to improve follow-up. But, can I suggest the problem starts earlier?
My concern is that churches that do not have a clear understanding of who they are and whom they can serve well don’t know how to attract the visitors who will stay. Our outreach efforts should be aligned with our values, vision and identity.
I believe an effective church website will give a potential visitor a good idea of what it would be like to visit the church. The potential visitor should be able to say, “That’s exactly the kind of church I’ve been looking for!” Or, the exact opposite.
Personally, I don’t want to waste the visitor’s time–or mine. I believe the church’s doors should be open to whosoever will come. I would gladly welcome anyone who comes. However, I want to increase the chances of reaching the kind of person that my church can minister to effectively.
__
Thanks for all the great work on the blogs and podcast. Perhaps alignment (including outreach) would be a good topic for a future podcast (if you haven’t already done one).
Thanks
Kevin
Where do you get the contact information from visitors to do follow-up? We have one of those strips in our bulletin for people to fill out and drop in the offering plate, but lately we’ve been getting a lot of visitors that don’t fill them out. That tells me that they probably don’t want to be contacted. Any thoughts?
When talking about follow up on guests we are having problems with follow up because we are having problems getting information from the guest. How is a good way to get that information?
Our ministry tackles the issue of follow-up as part of our training members to share the gospel. However, there is such a bad connotation associated with the term “follow-up” that I don’t even use that term anymore. Members turn white with fright or pastors get defensive because of “Follow Up Guilt”. Instead, I use the phrase “connect and engage”. We conquer the fears of evangelism in the same way we conquer the fears of follow-up. Connect and Engage is part of our methodology that we teach. This enables a core group of people who participate in an outreach campaign to be able to help the pastoral team “connect and engage” with visitors. It truly becomes an outreach ministry in and of itself. Great blog post.
Thank you!