Podcast Episode #556
SUBSCRIBE:
iTunes • RSS • Stitcher • TuneIn Radio • Google Play • iHeart Radio • Spotify
When toxic members are present in a church, resources are spent on overcoming the fallout of toxic members. As a result, members are less likely to invite others to church. Today, we explain six reasons why.
Some highlights from today’s episode include:
- Personal invitations to church are a great beginning point to get your church moving toward an outward focus.
- New members and guests are often seen as threats to church bullies and toxic members because they can potentially upset the balance of power in the church.
- Being a welcoming church requires a heart change, not just a change in actions.
- Pastors are often hesitant to deal with toxic members because there is a fear for job security.
The six ways we discuss are:
- Members are not inclined to invite others to an unhealthy culture.
- Most toxic members do not like new people in the church because it dilutes their power base.
- Toxic members hinder the welcoming process for guests.
- Pastors are hesitant to encourage people to invite.
- Resources of time and energy are spent on toxicity rather than inviting.
- Toxic cultures reduce the volunteer base.
Resources mentioned in today’s podcast
Rainer on Leadership is a member of the LifeWay Leadership Podcast Network
Episode Sponsors
Vanderbloemen has been serving churches for nine years, but did you know that Vanderbloemen also serves Christian schools, nonprofits, and Christian businesses? So if you’re listening, and you know a Christian school, nonprofit, or values-based business that is hiring, contact our friends at Vanderbloemen for your staffing needs.
For more information, visit Vanderbloemen.com.
The mission at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary is to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ by equipping students to serve the church and fulfill the Great Commission. The school offers more than 40 different degree programs, including the new Master of Arts in Church Revitalization in partnership with Church Answers and the Revitalization Network. This 37-hour degree is designed to help students move established churches from flatlining to flourishing.
Learn about this program and more by visiting sebts.edu. Where are you going? Southeastern will help you get there.
Feedback
If you have a question you would like answered on the show, fill out the form on the podcast page here at ThomRainer.com. If we use your question, you’ll receive a free copy of Scrappy Church.
When toxic members go to the pulpit to speak, one is never sure what they are going to say. This fear of what might be said leads members to not invite people. I have cringed when the words before the communion (evangelical replacement for the canon of the mass) were used to bash another denomination.
When small church pastors occasionally preach on tithing I’m discouraged in inviting new people. I tithe and don’t mind hearing sermons on it, but I once invited a biker to church numerous times, he did finally come, to hear why he should be tithing. He never came back thinking the church just wanted his money.
Tithing sermons tend to result in a bump up in giving. Some churches do a quarterly tithing sermon on schedule to keep the numbers high.
I don’t preach on tithing more than once or twice a year, if that often. If a visitor happens to come on that day, what am I supposed to do?
I just mentioned to one of my leaders the other day that we had a former church member admit that, while he attended our church, he “bad-mouthed” us when someone in the community approached him about seeking a place to go to church. Obviously this person was considering our church. What an opportunity that was blown because of what you mentioned in point two. Diluting the power base is the main reason that I have seen why people do not invite others to church. The amazing part of that conversation is that the person that I was speaking with said, “pastor, I have done the same thing.” She acknowledged that she also has said things about the church that were not positive. I know that she loves the church. Then I stopped and wondered how many times I have probably said things in anger and frustration in front of complete strangers. I admit that I am more aware of my responses when people ask me about the church that I serve. Our churches need to do more than just exist for themselves. We all need to love Jesus and realize that he can solve the toxic issues in our churches.
Even if we aren’t the toxic person, we’ve still got to adjust our attitudes and specifically pray for those who are. God knows their struggles a lot better than we do!
If someone is truly toxic, kick them out! The way you deal with toxins in your body is either remove or neutralize them yet no one is willing to do that for the church body.
The reality of doing such is that the toxic person will be there long after everyone else is gone and the pastor/preacher will be needing a new call/pulpit as well.
Devil is in the details. Who defines toxic?
If a Reformed Baptist church, not tongues speaking nor woman ordaining, calls a pastor and he appears to be of like mind, but he hit the field and began immediately preaching Arminian, tongues speaking, woman ordaining doctrine would the church members in opposition be “toxic?”
I seriously doubt many who read here would think so. By the same token, a preacher who comes in to make sweeping changes in theology (say from dispensational free grace to Calvinist), sweeping changes in the building (classic church to black walls, lights off, stage focused rather than pew folks participating), or from congregational governance to elder led might find himself facing a lot “toxic church members.”
But would he not be the toxic one? The one refusing to lead the church where he accepted a call and rather just trying to steal a building and further his own kingdom and career?
How do we REALLY define toxic? Seems just opposing a preacher may not be toxic after all.
We have a similar problem, since the pastor has been here (2.5 years) our secretary of 31 yrs has resigned along with 4 different staff members. all have resigned citing problems with micro managing from pastor. No one can do anything without his interfering. People are leaving the church in bunches because of the pastor. what do we do?
Join them. Pretty soon he won’t have a church…or a paycheck.
You’re welcome!
Please don’t listen to “Troothsayer”. Such an approach is not only petty and childish, but it also won’t solve the problem. Two wrongs don’t make a right. If the pastor is truly being toxic, then the church not only has the right but the duty to deal with it. If I were you, I would talk to some of the lay leadership.
This post defines toxic pretty well. It’s people, usually unbelievers, who are more concerned with their own power than discipleship
If a pastor is preaching contrary to Scripture, he should be fired – no ifs, ands, or buts. Of course, a Calvinist or a dispensationalist is not necessarily a heretic. Still, if he’s purposely stirring up divisions over secondary matters, then perhaps the church should call him to account. I’ve been a pastor for 24 years, and I’ve found it’s possible to address controversial theological issues without causing division. I usually preface it like this: “I know some good people will disagree with me on this point, but here’s how I see it.” Then I explain why I see it that way. I’ve found most people don’t hold that approach against me, even if they don’t share my opinions.
Above all–We must remember that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit invite ALL to come into their house. They want to make everyone feel that they are wanted and welcomed. After all, Everyone is our Sisters and Brothers in the Lord.
Guy in the pew: how do you know they are unbelievers concerned with their own power? That is pretty subjective judging on your part.
I’ll give a real life specific for you: the Assemblies of God churches have always been clearly Arminian, clearly teaching speaking in tongues, and clearly ordaining women. (Not saying I agree with them, just that is what they have taught.) But I am personally aware of a situation where a young pastor is pushing switching to a reformed theology, no tongues, and no women preachers. He is receiving strong push back from church members and will probably soon be fired. He bad mouths his pew peons (yes, by that term!) as toxic.
Are they?
I have for sure met my share of folks I consider toxic, both laity and clergy. But we have to tread very lightly when we denigrate people as toxic. There is always the possibility they are on the side of the angels and we are the deluded ones.
I realize one pastor could have considered me toxic for a time as I would not invite anyone to the church where I was a member. We were not a healthy church, I did not feel I should bail but should stay and work toward health, and did not feel it was a good place to invite newborn Christians. Is that truly toxic?
We wound up good friends and had a healthy church in the long run, and I did invite people once we were on the road to good health.
Most of the time, from a pew peon point of view, the folks not willing to follow leadership have a reason. Give us a break: it may not be that we are unsaved, mean spirited, or power hungry. We may simply disagree with you.
Many of us still hold to CONGREGATIONAL governance. So no matter how loudly leadership bellows they are in charge, they are not.
Is that toxic?
If God has truly called a specific person to a specific ministry to make specific changes it only makes sense to assume God would also prepare the hearts of the people. It is at least within the realm of possibility that the people have not heard God, or do have toxic hard hearts, yes. But it is also within the realm of possibility the person who feels called is just mistaken, or has a toxic hard heart that always wants ITS own way.
That level of disconnect should have us enter a season of prayer and fasting coupled with deep listening to each other, not labels and name calling and bullying.
You asked for a definition, I gave you one. It’s a pretty straight forward definition too. Anyone dealing with such people knows it’s not that subjective.
If you don’t believe toxic people really exist just say so, although the writers of the NT might disagree.
I’m curious: did that Assembly of God church know the pastor’s theology when they called him? (For the record, I don’t know if AOG churches “call” their pastors in the same way Baptists do, or if they’re assigned there by some denominational authority). Either way, I can’t understand why someone would go to a church that was so different from his own doctrinal beliefs. I’ve been a pastor for 24 years, and I would never consider serving a church that ordained women or embraced charismatic theology. Churches have a right to embrace these things, but anyone with half a brain would know that I wouldn’t be a good fit as their pastor.
On the other hand, I knew of a church years ago that called a liberal pastor, and they later turned against him. However, they knew he was liberal when they called him, and they said they didn’t have a problem with it then. Thus, it was more than a little disingenuous for them to use his theology against him.
It isn’t a divide between the pastor and the crowd. Toxic people show up at different levels. Get the wrong host for the home group, and it becomes a feminist indoctrination camp no one wants to attend. Get the wrong youth pastor, and youth group is a party with no boundaries. I’ve had many times of being asked to recruit more people to a church/program, only to feel in my gut that i would never subject my friends to this torment.
For more than a year I had invited a brother to visit our church. When he finally came and attended our men’s Sunday school class, he used his smart phone as his Bible just as I also did. When a few brothers spoke against our doing so and called those of us who do use technology to read and study God’s Word lazy, my invited guest promptly left and I have been unable to reach him since that day.
I am very sorry to have subjected my acquaintance to such a toxic environment and I pray that God will open our eyes, heart and mind to be receptive to the innovations available to us for purpose of spreading and sharing God’s Word and fellowship with others..
Has anyone thought about talking to the pastor?
When a problem arises, one should go to the source, not gossip all through the church.